CHARLOTTE: GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.  MY NAME IS CHARLOTTE FALLON.  THIS MORNINGS TOPIC IS HAND OUT OR HAND UP.  THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY THERE’S BEEN A DISCUSSION OF HOW MUCH HELP WE SHOULD GIVE TO THOSE IN NEED OF WHOM THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN MANY.  TODAY IN OUR OWN STATE OF IOWA IT’S ESTIMATED THAT ONE IN TEN ARE IN WHAT IS NOW REFERRED TO AND I JUST LEARNED FROM ONE OF OUR GUESTS THIS MORNING IS KNOWN AS FOOD INSECURITY.  THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH HELP SHOULD BE GIVEN AND WHO IS RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO PROVIDE HELP.  OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS STRESSES INDIVIDUALISM, BOTH IN TERMS OF RIGHTS AND THEN BY EXTENSION, RESPONSIBILITY.  HERBERT HOOVER, THE ONLY PRESIDENT FROM IOWA, SAID TO GIVE SOMEONE SOMETHING FOR NOTHING WAS TO SUPPRESS INITIATIVE.  DO WE DO THIS BY PROVIDING HANDOUTS OR ARE WE JUST HELPING THOSE IN NEED OVER A ROUGH PATCH.  WITH ME TO DISCUSS THIS AND OTHER ISSUES THIS MORNING ARE PAT KANE, DIRECTOR OF THE CROSSROADS MISSION, BRUCE WILLIAMS FROM HILLCREST FAMILY SERVICES AND TODD TAYLOR, STATE REPRESENTATIVE OF IOWA HOUSE DISTRICT 34.  WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.  WE’LL BEGIN, I THINK A GOOD PLACE FOR US TO START THE DISCUSSION IS IN TERMS OF NUMBERS AND I KNOW PAT YOU HAVE SOME NUMBERS ABOUT POVERTY THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH US THIS MORNING. 

 

PAT: 34 MILLION AMERICANS LIVE IN POVERTY.  GREATER THAN 51 MILLION HAVE FOOD INSECURITY AND THE SIMPLE DEFINITION OF FOOD INSECURITY IS SOMEONE WHO EXPERIENCES PHYSICAL PAIN FOR THE LACK OF FOOD AND DOESN’T KNOW WHEN THEIR NEXT MEAL IS GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO THEM.  LIKEWISE, THE CHICAGO COUNCIL OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS HAS COME OUT AND NOW TELL US THAT ONE HALF OF ALL BABIES BEING BORN IN 2007 ARE BEING BORN INTO FAMILIES WITH FOOD INSECURITY.  PRETTY STAGGERING NUMBERS.   THERE’S ALSO THIS REGIONALIZATION OF POVERTY.  IT USED TO BE JUST OUR INNER CITIES WHERE POVERTY EXISTED.  IT HAS NOW EQUALIZED INTO THE URBAN AREAS OF OUR CITIES, EVEN HERE IN IOWA AND THEN WE LOOK AT OUR RURAL AREAS WHERE ON A PER CAPITA BASIS POVERTY IS WORSE THAN IN THE INNER CITY AND THAT’S HERE IN IOWA AND THE MIDWEST IN THE AGRICULTURAL STATES.  WE NOW HAVE THIS CULTURE POVERTY, STRONGLY DEFINED BY ANTHROPOLOGISTS SINCE 1959 AND EVERY TIME WE TRY TO WORK ON GETTING A RESOLUTION IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT’S A SLIPPERY TARGET THAT KEEPS MOVING ON US WHEN WE TRY TO RESOLVE IT AND I THINK IT’S PROBABLY WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT IN THIS MORNINGS SHOW. 

 

CHARLOTTE: WELL I’LL ASK TODD THIS AS A POLITICIAN AND I KNOW THAT’S NOT YOUR WHOLE LIFE, YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS AS WELL BUT WHO’S RESPONSIBILITY IS THIS?  WE KNOW THAT FROM THE TIME OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION WHEN GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS FIRST, WE HAVE SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON POVERTY PROGRAMS AND BY THE NUMBERS THAT PAT GAVE US TO NOT MUCH AVAIL REALLY SO WHO’S RESPONSIBILITY IS THIS TO DEAL WITH THESE THINGS?

 

TODD: WELL I THINK I WOULD ANSWER FIRST BY SAYING THERE’S A COMMUNITY IN NEED AND THE COMMUNITIES RESPONSIBILITY IS TO HELP IT’S MEMBERS AND I THINK WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WHAT WE FIND IS THERE’S A RESPONSE FROM THE COMMUNITY TO MAKE SURE WHETHER WE TAKE CARE OF THE YOUNGEST AND MOST NEEDY OR THE OLDEST AND THE MOST FRAIL OR ANY NEEDS IN BETWEEN.  BUT WHEN WE DO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT ARE IN BETWEEN, THE COMMUNITY ITSELF GROWS STRONGER AND IS BETTER FOR IT.   CERTAINLY DON’T WANT TO GO AGAINST PRESIDENT HOOVER SAYING SUPPRESS INITIATIVE BUT I DO THINK THERE IS TIMES WHEN THE NEED IS SO GREAT, IT’S THE COMMUNITY AND IT’S GOVERNMENT, IT’S THE PUBLIC ENTITY SO THE PUBLIC, THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS RESPONSIBLE TO THE PEOPLE.  WHEN THEY GET INVOLVED, WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND CERTAINLY OVER THE YEARS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE BEEN SPENT AND THERE ARE STILL NEEDS BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF PEOPLES CONTROL SOMETIMES LIKE A NATURAL DISASTER.  CERTAINLY KATRINA IS AN EASY ONE TO TALK ABOUT BUT WE’VE HAD DISASTERS IN THE PAPER TODAY, THERE’S BRIDGES THAT ARE WASHED OUT BECAUSE OF RECENT RAINS.  THE TEMPERATURE FLUCTUATIONS ARE GOING TO CAUSE PEOPLE TO HAVE OTHER NEEDS.  SOMETIMES THOSE ARE SO BIG OF A NEED THAT THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO HELP OUT AND I KNOW THAT OUR COMMUNITY LIKE OUR FOOD BANKS AND OUR FREE MEDICAL CLINIC, THESE TYPES OF THINGS ARE STRETCHED TO THE LIMITS AND WITH PRIVATE DONATIONS, SOMETIMES THEY MIGHT NEED SOME GOVERNMENTAL HELP.  I THINK WHEN THE GOVERNMENT RESPONDS, WHEN THE COMMUNITY RESPONDS THE PEOPLE ARE BETTER OFF.

 

BRUCE:  I WANT TO RESPOND TO WHAT YOU MEAN BY PRESIDENT HOOVER AND THE TALK OF INITIATIVE BEING STIFLED IF YOU GIVE SOMEBODY SOMETHING.  POVERTY CAN ALSO STIFLE INITIATIVE.  PEOPLE CAN BE SO OVERWHELMED BY IT, WHY BOTHER TO TRY.  THAT SENSE OF HOPELESSNESS CAN BE VERY POWERFUL AND TAKE AWAY INITIATIVE AS WELL AS OTHER EVENTS.

 

CHARLOTTE: AND HOW DO YOU SEE POVERTY REFLECTED IN THE SERVICES THAT YOU PROVIDE AT HILLCREST?

 

BRUCE: PARADOXICALLY, OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE NEED OUT PATIENT THERAPY THE MOST IS WHEN THEY CAN LEAST AFFORD IT.  THE STRESS THAT MAY COME FROM A LAYOFF AND DOWNSIZING FROM THE TURN OF THE ECONOMY MAY CAUSE THINGS TO BE MORE STRESSFUL AT HOME, THEREFORE RELATIONSHIPS ARE INTERRUPTED IN SOME WAY PEOPLE NEED THERAPY, THEY HAVE FEWER RESOURCES TO GET IT.

 

CHARLOTTE: ARE THERE, I MEAN I DON’T KNOW, ARE THERE PROGRAMS AVAILABLE FOR THOSE IN NEED TO GET THE KIND OF SERVICES THAT ARE PROVIDED AT HILLCREST OR DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF INSURANCE OR PAY FOR IT UP FRONT?  HOW DOES THAT WORK?

 

BRUCE: IT CAN WORK SEVERAL WAYS CHARLOTTE.  ONE MIGHT BE INSURANCE BUT IF ONE HAS BEEN LAID OFF ONE MAY NOT HAVE INSURANCE NOT ONLY FOR THERAPY BUT FOR MEDICAL AND DENTAL AS WELL.  THAT MAY BE ELIMINATED.  PAT WAS TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBERS, THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE ONE PAYCHECK AWAY FROM BEING HOMELESS.  IF THEY GET LAID OFF THEY MAY BE LIVING IN THEIR CAR FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND THEY COME OUT OF THAT 45, 47 MILLION RIGHT NOW WHO AREN’T INSURED, THEY GET LAID OFF THEY DON’T HAVE INSURANCE.  THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT QUALIFY FOR DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT THE GOVERNMENT MAY OFFER, SOMETIMES THAT MAY DEPEND ON THE TIME OF YEAR BECAUSE THE FUNDS MAY BE DEPLETED AND THEREFORE UNAVAILABLE UNTIL THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR.  SOME PEOPLE JUST DON’T QUALIFY, THEY FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.

 

CHARLOTTE: PAT, THE FOLKS THAT YOU SEE, DO THEY UM, I MEAN DO YOU SEE SORT OF PEOPLE, THE SAME FOLKS CONSTANTLY OR DO YOU SEE NEW PEOPLE, YOU KNOW I MEAN, I GUESS WHAT I’M ASKING IS THERE JUST SO OF A COHORT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ALWAYS IN NEED, THAT DOESN’T SEEM, THEY’RE JUST TROUBLED SOULS AND

 

PAT: SURE, WE SEE A BROAD SPECTRUM.  WE SEE PEOPLE THAT ARE CHRONIC BECAUSE THEY’RE MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO WORK.  WE SEE THEM ON A REPEAT BUSINESS TO SUPPLY FOOD AND CLOTHING AND OTHER KINDS OF SUPPORT.  WE ALSO SEE THOSE WHO HAVE JUST BEEN RECENTLY BEEN LAID OFF, WE’RE SEEING AN INCREASE OF SINGLE PARENT, HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD BEING MALE, NOT JUST THE FEMALE WHICH WAS PREDOMINANT JUST 10, 20 YEARS AGO.  IT WAS FEMALE HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD, SINGLE PARENT.  WE’RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ONE AND TWO JOBS BUT MOST OF THOSE JOBS ARE SERVICE SECTOR JOBS AND EVEN A PERSON WORKING 2 SERVICE SECTOR JOBS STILL LIVE WITHIN POVERTY AND ARE NOT ABLE TO LIFT THEMSELVES UP OUT OF THAT.  WITH THE MOVEMENT IN THE 80'S AND THE 90'S TO GET PEOPLE OFF OF WELFARE AND INTO EMPLOYMENT, THAT OCCURRED AND THAT WAS SUCCESSFUL BUT IN THE AFTERMATH OF THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND YOU LOOK AT THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS THE URBAN INITIATIVE THINK TANK, ALL IT DID WAS SHIFT PEOPLE INTO OTHER FEDERAL PROGRAMS BECAUSE MOST OF THE JOBS THAT THEY ATTAINED DID NOT RESULT IN LIVING WAGES AND HEALTH BENEFITS.  ALL WE DID WAS SHIFT THEM INTO OTHER PROGRAMS TO THE POINT WHERE ONE IN SIX ARE STILL IN POVERTY BUT THEY’RE IN SERVICE SECTOR JOBS. 

CHARLOTTE: SO WHAT DO WE DO, I MEAN WHAT DO WE DO?  SOMEBODY QUITE FAMOUS SAID THAT THE POOR WILL ALWAYS BE WITH US BUT WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS?

 

WELL ONE APPROACH MIGHT BE, LET’S TRY TO FOCUS ON WAGES.  LET’S TRY TO CREATE JOBS THAT PAY REALLY BETTER, PAY BETTER WAGES.  LET ME TIE IT TO THIS, RECENTLY THE PRESIDENT JUST VETOED STATE CHILDRENS HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM AND THAT TO ME IN UNCONSCIONABLE BECAUSE BASICALLY WHAT WE’RE DOING IS TAKING A VERY EFFECTIVE USE OF DOLLARS, PUBLIC DOLLARS TO HELP HEALTH INSURANCE FOR CHILDREN OF WORKING PARENTS AND IT’S NOT JUST MEN AND IT’S NOT JUST WOMEN, IT’S FAMILIES.  THESE ARE FOLKS THAT ALREADY HAVE JOBS BUT WHY DON’T THEY HAVE ENOUGH HEALTH INSURANCE?  BECAUSE THEY CAN’T AFFORD IT, WHY?  BECAUSE THE WAGES ARE TOO LOW.  SO, I THINK PART OF THE EQUATION IS IF WE CAN CREATE BETTER PAYING JOBS WE’LL RAISE UP THE MIDDLE CLASS A LITTLE BIT.  THEY’LL HAVE THE MONEY IN THEIR WAGES TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.  SO AGAIN, I THINK WHAT THE PRESIDENT DID I THINK IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO THAT.    THAT WOULD BE A HAND UP BECAUSE IT ALLOWS PARENTS TO GO AND FIND WORK SO THEIR CHILDREN WILL HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE BUT ONE DIAGNOSIS OF A DISEASE OR A SICKNESS OR AN ILLNESS IS GOING TO PUT THEM BACK INTO A POVERTY SPIRAL DOWN.  TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION I THINK FOCUSING ON WAGES AND INCREASING THE PAY AND THESE TYPES OF THINGS HAS GONE UP.

 

CHARLOTTE: AND CLEARLY SOMETHING ABOUT HEALTH CARE BUT THAT’S SORT OF A WHOLE OTHER ISSUE. 

 

BRUCE: I THINK WE’VE GOT A SYSTEMIC ISSUE GOING ON TOO THAT’S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH.  THE ECONOMY DOES WELL IN THIS COUNTRY IF THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE TO CONSUME GOODS AND SERVICES YET INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES DO WELL IF THEY CAN CUT THEIR COSTS WHICH MEANS SOMETIMES REDUCING THE WORK FORCE.  ON AN INDIVIDUAL COMPANY BASIS IT’S IN THEIR INTERESTS TO HAVE PEOPLE, NOT NECESSARILY BE EMPLOYED BUT FOR THE ECONOMY AS A WHOLE, IT’S IN THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY TO HAVE PEOPLE EMPLOYED SO THERE ARE COMPETING FORCES. 

CHARLOTTE: SO AT WHAT POINT AND SOME OF US HERE, MYSELF, REMEMBER RONALD REAGAN WHO ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT THOSE WELFARE QUEENS AND YOU KNOW, AT WHAT POINT DO WE BECOME ENABLERS THOUGH WITH ASSISTANCE.  DO YOU HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT?

 

GOING BACK TO YOUR INITIAL COMMENT, I THINK WE’VE GOT A DOUBLE STANDARD.  WHEN A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR SELLS TO THE GOVERNMENT AN ITEM THAT IS CLEARLY TOO EXPENSIVE, LET’S SAY A $700 HAMMER, THAT SEEMS SMART BUSINESS BUT IF WE’VE GOT A SINGLE MOTHER OR A FATHER WITH 4 OR 5 CHILDREN, THAT’S A BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER.  THAT’S A DOUBLE STANDARD.  I THINK WE’VE GOT TO EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD IF WE’RE GOING TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE IN A COUNTRY WISE SENSE.  I THINK YOU CAN ARGUE THAT ON SEVERAL LEVELS IN TERMS OF HOW DO WE RESPOND.  ON A HUMANISTIC LEVEL, IT’S THE DECENT THING TO DO FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE HURTING.  YOU CAN ALSO ARGUE IT THEOLOGICALLY, THAT MANY OF THE RELIGIONS HAVE THAT AS A TENET AS WHAT THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO DO IN RESPONSE TO PEOPLE THAT ARE DISENFRANCHISED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND I THINK YOU CAN ARGUE IT ECONOMICALLY THAT IT’S IN THE INTEREST TO THE ECONOMY AS A WHOLE IF THERE ARE MORE TAXPAYERS, AND YOU GET TAXPAYERS BY GETTING FOLKS WITH JOBS WHO CAN AFFORD TO BE IN THE TAX SCALE THEN.

 

CHARLOTTE: PAT I KNOW THAT YOU ARE AN EUCENEMICAL MINISTER SO WHERE DO YOU SEE THE HELP COMING FROM?  DO YOU SEE THIS AS AN ISSUE OF GOVERNMENT OR DO YOU SEE THIS AS AN ISSUE FOR OUR PRIVATE CHARITIES OR INDIVIDUALS AND SO FORTH?

 

PAT: I THINK IT HAS TO BE A MIXTURE OF ALL.  WE KNOW FROM THE 80;S AND 90'S THAT PUBLIC POLICY AND THE POLITICAL ARENA MEANS VERY WELL IN ATTEMPTS TO CURE THE PROBLEM BUT I’M NOT SO SURE THAT IT CAN BE DONE BY GOVERNMENT ALONE.  I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SEEING TODAY IS AN INITIATIVE BY THE FAITH BASED COMMUNITIES AND PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS AND CORPORATIONS COMING TOGETHER TO WORK HAND IN HAND WITH OUR LEGISLATORS AT THE FEDERAL AND THE STATE LEVEL AND EVEN THE LOCAL CITIES TO FORM A CONSORTIA BECAUSE IT CAN’T BE DONE JUST BY ANY ONE ALONE.  POVERTY IN CONTINUING TO SNOWBALL.  WE KNOW THAT THE ADAGE OF THE RICH GETTING RICHER AND THE POOR GETTING POORER IS TRUE.  WE KNOW THAT AND NOW SOCIOLOGISTS ARE BEGINNING TO FIND THIS PHENOMENON WHICH ARE CALLING THE 11 YEAR CYCLE OF POVERTY AND IT’S NOW QUANTIFIABLE.  THIS IS SOMEBODY THAT HAS A MIDDLE CLASS JOB AND FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY GET LAID OFF, THEY LOSE THAT JOB, IT GOES TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, THAT JOB BECOMES REDUNDANT BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY AND THEY SUDDENLY FALL INTO POVERTY.  IN GERMANY THEY’RE NOT, THEY’RE TOO PROUD TO STEP UP AND SAY I NEED HELP EARLY AND ABOUT THE TIME THEY’RE READY TO LOSE THE HOUSE, READY TO BE FORECLOSED ON, THEN THEY SUDDENLY START TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO GET OUT OF THIS.  THEY EVENTUALLY ROLL INTO A JOB THAT PROVIDES UNDEREMPLOYMENT AND TAKES ABOUT 11 YEARS TO ROLL UP INTO A FULL EMPLOYMENT SITUATION.  THEN AT SOME POINT BECAUSE WE DON’T JUST HAVE A JOB FOR A LIFETIME ANYMORE, THEY’RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT CYCLE AGAIN.  SO IT’S NOT JUST THOSE IN THE CULTURE OF POVERTY, IT’S ALSO BEGINNING TO CREEP INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS AS WELL AND IT’S A MATTER OF I THINK, FORMING AN CONSORTIA FOR GOVERNMENT AND FAITH COMMUNITIES AND CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS CAN COME TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER.

 

CHARLOTTE: THIS IS A QUESTION I’LL ASK ALL OF YOU BUT WHERE DOES PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME IN HERE BECAUSE I KNOW SOME OF OUR VIEWERS ARE PROBABLY THINKING, YOU KNOW, I WAS BORN WITH NOT MUCH AND I WORKED HARD AND I’VE HAD CRUMMY JOBS AND I’VE DONE WHAT I HAD TO DO AND IF YOU’RE NOT MAKING A LOT OF MONEY AND YOU’RE PAYING YOUR TAXES YOU CAN BECOME RESENTFUL OF PEOPLE YOU THINK ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM AND SO FORTH.  WHERE DOES PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME INTO THIS TODD?

 

TODD: I MIGHT START ANSWERING THAT WITH IN RESPONSE TO PAT TOO, I THINK IT’S A BLEND, IT’S A COMBINATION OF THINGS, FOR EXAMPLE IN MY OWN PERSONAL STORY, I HAVE A VERY GOOD COLLEGE EDUCATION, I THINK.  HOW DID I PAY FOR THAT?  WELL IT TOOK ME TIL AGE 29 BUT I HAD HELP FROM MY GOVERNMENT BUT I DID PAY IT OFF BUT HOW DID I DO IT?  I HAD HELP FROM MY GOVERNMENT, MY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND LOWER INTEREST ON THE LOANS, MERCHANTS NATIONAL BANK HERE IN TOWN AND MY CHURCH AND THE LOCAL ** CONGREGATION AND ALSO I GOT A JOB.  I WAS THE ONE WHO HAD TO DO THE STUDYING SO I DID MY PART BY THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY BUT I DIDN’T DO IT ALONE.  I HAD HELP, MY FAMILY, THE CHURCH, THE COMMUNITY, THE GOVERNMENT SO I THINK WHILE WE DO HAVE THIS GOOD BLEND, THIS MIX, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST SOLUTION.  CERTAINLY INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE PART OF IT.

 

CHARLOTTE: BRUCE?

 

BRUCE: SOMETIMES LOOKING AT INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY IS A CONVENIENT WAY OF IGNORING A CORPORATE OR A COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY AND IT’S NOT AN EITHER OR IT’S A BOTH AND.  WHAT AM I DOING FOR MY NEIGHBOR IS A QUESTION I THINK NEEDS TO BE ASKED NOW IN ADDITION TO WHAT’S THE NEIGHBOR DOING FOR THE NEIGHBOR.  THE OLD IDEA OF PULLING ONESELF UP BY ONES BOOTSTRAPS IS VERY COMMON IN OUR CULTURE BUT THERE’S A PRE SUPPOSITION THAT THERE’S SOME BOOTS THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, SOME PEOPLE DON’T HAVE THAT.  TODD, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR OWN EXAMPLE.  I THINK OF THE STUDENT WHO CAN’T CONCENTRATE IN GRADE SCHOOL OR HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY’RE HUNGRY, THEY’RE NOT SURE IF THEY’RE GOING TO BE LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF THE NEXT WEEK, OTHER THINGS INTERFERE AND SO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS SOMEWHAT MEANINGLESS WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE THE RESOURCES THAT ARE BASIC TO BE ABLE TO CONCENTRATE IN SCHOOL AND YOU MULTIPLY THAT MANY TIMES OVER AND SO WE’VE GOT MILLIONS THAT ARE IN PATS FIGURES.

 

CHARLOTTE: PAT, HOW DOES IT WORK OUT IN YOUR MISSION, THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?

PAT: OVER 90% OF OUR PEOPLE HAVE JUST COME TO US ONCE WHEN THEY HAD AN IMMEDIATE NEED CAUSE WE ARE AN EMERGENCY MISSION.  THEY’RE NOT THE KIND OF FOLKS THAT ARE COMING TO USE US SO THEY DON’T HAVE TO GO TO WORK AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE WORKING OR LOOKING FOR THE NEXT JOB BECAUSE THEY WERE LAID OFF.  IN THAT 10% GROUP, WE KEEP RECORDS OF WHO COMES IN AND WHAT THEY’RE DOING AS OTHER EMERGENCY FOOD BANKS BECAUSE WE’RE PART OF THE U.S.D.A. PROGRAM THROUGH THE HACAP FOOD RESERVOIR AND WE QUICKLY IDENTIFY THAT LESS THAN 1% WHO COME TO US THAT MIGHT BE TRYING TO USE US AS THEIR FREE GROCERY STORE OR THEIR FREE CLOTHES STORE AND THEN WE DEAL WITH THEM.  WE START TALKING ABOUT JOBS AND WE START WORKING THROUGH THE CONTINUUM OF CARE PROCESS THAT WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY ESTABLISHED AND SOME OF THEM MAY HAVE NEEDS THAT NEED TO BE MET BY COUNSELING AND BECAUSE OF LACK OF INSURANCE WE HAVE TO THEN USE THE ABBE CENTER AND THAT HAS A WAITING LIST BECAUSE OF RESOURCES AND THERE’S SOME THINGS IN THE SYSTEM THAT JUST DON’T WORK WELL BUT IT’S THE BEST THAT WE HAVE FOR THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY.

 

CHARLOTTE: I REMEMBER READING, SOCIOLOGISTS I THINK, ARE LOOKING NOW AT SURVIVAL CHILDREN, CHILDREN THAT GROW UP IN REALLY HORRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES BUT MANAGE TO BE ALL RIGHT AND THEY’RE SORT OF LOOKING AT THE QUALITIES THAT THOSE CHILDREN HAVE AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY CONCLUDED WAS THAT THE CHILDREN HAD ONE PERSON THAT CARED ABOUT THEM AND NOT NECESSARILY A PARENT BUT IT COULD BE A MINISTER OR A COUNSELOR, A TEACHER OR SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.  HOW DO WE MAKE THAT BIGGER?  IS THAT THE MAGIC QUESTION?

 

PAT:  I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE’RE TRYING TO DO AT THE MISSION IS TO FOSTER THE SENSE OF NEIGHBORHOOD.  IF YOU CAN BE SURROUNDED BY A FAITH COMMUNITY, IF YOU CAN BE SURROUNDED BY NEIGHBORS AS WELL AS THE TEACHERS AND WHAT NOT.  MY WIFE AND I ARE BIG BROTHERS AND BIG SISTERS TO A BROTHER AND A SISTER, THERE’S JUST SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY THAT CAN COME FROM THAT AND PROVIDE MENTORS THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY PROVIDED BECAUSE ONE OF MY EXPERIENCES HAS BEEN THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE CULTURE OF POVERTY DON’T KNOW THEIR NEIGHBOR.  THE KIDS KNOW THE KIDS AT SCHOOL.

 

CHARLOTTE: AND THERE’S A LOT OF SHAME INVOLVED WITH THAT TOO.

 

PAT: SO WE’RE TRYING TO OPEN THAT UP AND PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO HAVE SOME SOCIAL MOMENTS WHERE THEY CAN BEGIN TO TRUST US, THEY CAN THEN BEGIN TO TRUST THOSE THEIR MEETING IN THAT MIX WITHIN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THAT’S WHERE IT’S GOING TO COME FROM. 

CHARLOTTE: HOW DO YOU SEE THIS WORKING IN YOUR PRACTICE BRUCE WITH SORT OF INDIVIDUAL HELP FOR INDIVIDUAL CHILDREN OR ADULTS PROBABLY AS WELL?

 

BRUCE: TO PICK UP ON THE WORD THAT PAT USED AND THAT’S MENTOR.  I THINK IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE WHEN I WENT THROUGH CONFIRMATION CLASS IN CHURCH IN JUNIOR HIGH YEARS, THERE WAS ONE TEACHER IN THE CLASS.  I SUPPOSE IT’S BEEN 25, 30 YEARS AFTER THAT EXPERIENCE MY OWN CHURCH ASKED ME TO BE A MENTOR TO A CONPRAMAN TO A CONFIRMATION CLASS THAT WAS UPCOMING.  THAT WAS A NEW IDEA TO ME.  IT HAD NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE AS A YOUTH.  I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT APPROACH TO GIVE, NOT ONLY THE CONPRAMAN AS A TEACHER BUT AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON WITH WHOM TO MEET PERIODICALLY THROUGHOUT THAT EXPERIENCE.  I THINK OF MULTIPLYING THAT IN OTHER WAYS, COACHES WITH ATHLETES, GIRLS CLUBS BOYS CLUBS, SCOUTING, 4H WHERE AN ADULT WHO’S RESPONSIBLE CAN BE A MENTOR TO A YOUTH AND THAT IN TURN WILL SPREAD THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP TO WHAT YOU REFERRED.

 

CHARLOTTE: I THINK WE TALKED TO ALL OF THE MAJOR AND I GUESS MINOR RELIGIONS SEE HELPING ON E ANOTHER AS A SORT OF MORAL DEMAND SO WHY DOESN’T THIS HAPPEN?  WHY DON’T WE DO THIS?

 

BRUCE:  BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS FIRST AND FOREMOST ARE MOTIVATED BY SELF INTEREST. 

 

CHARLOTTE: BUT ISN’T IT IN OUR SELF INTEREST, I ALWAYS USED TO TELL MY STUDENTS IT’S IN MY SELF INTEREST TO MAKE SURE CHILDREN GET AN EDUCATION SO THAT WHEN I GET OLDER AND GRAYER, THEY DON’T BOP ME ON THE HEAD TO STEAL MY PURSE BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANY MONEY.  I MEAN IT’S IN OUR OWN SELF INTEREST REALLY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT SITUATION.

 

BRUCE: AND THAT VIEWPOINT COMES FROM A CERTAIN SET OF VALUES THAT UNFORTUNATELY AREN’T UNIVERSAL CHARLOTTE.

 

CHARLOTTE: WHAT CAN POLITICS DO FOR US TODD?

 

TODD: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS THINKING IN OUR CONVERSATIONS HERE IS IT DOES GO BACK TO EDUCATION.  IF WE CAN TEACH SOMEBODY SOME OF THESE THINGS, MAYBE HOW TO ACCESS A COUNSELOR OR HOW TO ACCESS SOME COMMUNITY SERVICES, THAT MAY BE PART OF THE EQUATION BUT PART OF THE CORE THERE IS EDUCATION.  SLIGHTLY TANGENT TO THIS IS ONE OF MY BIG ACCOMPLISHMENTS THIS LAST SESSION WAS TO ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY TO OUR PRISON EDUCATION SYSTEM.  AT SOME POINT THESE FOLKS, MOST OF THEM ARE GOING TO GET OUT OF PRISON AND IF THEY DON’T HAVE A GED, THEY’RE GOING TO GO BACK INTO A CYCLE OF PROBABLY MORE CRIME AND THAT WILL LEAD TO OTHER BAD THINGS.  A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY SPENT ON THAT IN OUR PRISON SYSTEM, WHEN THEY COME OUT IT PAYS WONDERFUL DIVIDENDS SO I THINK THAT IS JUST A SMALL LITTLE PARADIGM OF WHAT I THINK IS WHY

 

CHARLOTTE: BUT IT’S VERY HARD TO GET THAT MONEY UP FRONT ISN’T IT BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK PRISONERS, PUT THEM IN THERE, LOCK THE DOOR AND THROW AWAY THE KEY.

 

AND A LOT OF TIME SOME OF THOSE FOLKS DON’T EVEN HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL EQUIVALENT EDUCATION, A GED.  ONE WAY WE CAN DO THAT IS THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN OUR PRISONS, THAT IS ONE OF THE BEST RETURN BANG FOR OUR BUCKS AND THAT’S JUST ONE SMALL LITTLE PIECE OF A VERY VERY LARGE EQUATION HERE.

 

BRUCE:  THAT RAISES ANOTHER DOUBLE STANDARD.  YOU KNOW WHEN YOU SEE SOMEONE GET PULLED OVER BY A POLICE OFFICER YOU WANT JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.  WHEN YOU GET PULLED OVER, YOU WANT MERCY TO PREVAIL. 

 

I THINK TOO THAT WE’RE REALLY TOUCHING ON AN ISSUE HERE WHICH IS YOU GIVE SOMEBODY A FISH AND FEED THEM OR DO YOU TEACH THEM TO FISH SO THAT THEY CAN FEED THEMSELVES FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.  I REALLY THINK THAT’S A BOGUS ARGUMENT.  WHEN SOMEONE IS IN HUMAN SUFFERING, WHEN THEY’RE, THEY DON’T KNOW IF THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD TOMORROW, THEY DON’T KNOW IF THEY’RE GOING TO GET A MEAL TOMORROW OR EVEN TONIGHT BEFORE THEY GO TO BED, YOU HAVE TO FIRST ALLEVIATE THAT HUMAN SUFFERING AND THAT MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE FISH.  THEN YOU NEED TO WALK ALONGSIDE THE, BOTH OF THOSE IN THE FAITH COMMUNITIES AND WELL AS THOSE WHO ARE IN COUNSELING AS WELL AS OUR POLITICAL STRUCTURE AND THEN BEGIN TO TEACH THEM HOW TO FISH.  BUT FIRST YOU HAVE TO ALLEVIATE THE HUMAN SUFFERING.  UNTIL WE DO THAT, THEIR EARS AND THEIR MINDS AND THEIR HEARTS ARE NOT OPEN TO LEARNING HOW TO FISH.

 

CHARLOTTE: ONE MORE THING JUST TO TOUCH ON AS TIME IS RUNNING LATE, THIS THING THAT WE HEAR ABOUT NOW, THE CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT.  BRUCE DO YOU SEE THIS IN YOUR PRACTICE?

 

BRUCE: YES AND IT ISN’T AT JUST ONE LEVEL.  IT’S THROUGHOUT THE CULTURE AND IT EXPRESSES ITSELF IN DIFFERENT WAYS DEPENDING ON WHAT PART OF THE SOCIETY WE’RE LOOKING AT BUT IT’S VERY PERSUASIVE, VERY PERVASIVE AND NOT JUST AT THE LOWER END OF THE ECONOMIC STRUCTURE. 

 

CHARLOTTE: CERTAINLY.  I THINK THAT’S AN EXCELLENT POINT BECAUSE I THINK WEALTHY PEOPLE HAVE THEIR ENTITLEMENTS TOO THAT THEY FEEL ARE BUT WHAT ABOUT POLITICALLY?  IS THIS DIFFICULT I MEAN, PEOPLE THINK THAT THEY’RE OWED SOMETHING BY THE GOVERNMENT AND WELL, DOES THE GOVERNMENT OWE US SOMETHING? 

 

TODD: I THINK JOHN KENNEDY SAID IT BEST, ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY.  I THINK IF YOU TAKE THAT ATTITUDE, WE’RE GOING TO BE BETTER AS A COMMUNITY, AS A COUNTRY.

 

CHARLOTTE: JUST AS WE FINISH UP I’LL GIVE YOU ALL, IT HAS TO BE BRIEF BUT IF YOU COULD DO ONE THING TO END POVERTY, WHAT WOULD IT BE? 

 

TODD:  WORK ON FUNDING EDUCATION.

 

BRUCE:  MORE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

 

PAT:  INSURING THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED THE WORLD.  AND THEN HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO FEED IT.

 

CHARLOTTE: YEAH BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE FOOD DON’T WE?

 

PAT: WE HAVE THE ABILITY.

 

CHARLOTTE: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING AND I HOPE YOU’LL BE WITH US AGAIN NEXT WEEK.  I WANT TO THANK OUR GUESTS THIS MORNING AS WELL.