AARON: GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.  MY NAME IS AARON SHERMAN AND I AM THE RABBI OF TEMPLE JUDAH IN CEDAR RAPIDS.  OUR TOPIC TODAY IS THE JENA SIX, THE QUESTION OF JUSTICE.  WE HAVE 3 DISTINGUISHED GUESTS WHO WILL SHARE WITH US THEIR REACTIONS TO WHAT OCCURRED IN JENA, LOUISIANA AND HEAR ABOUT OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THE STATE OF RACE RELATIONSHIPS IN THE UNITED STATES AND SPECIFICALLY, HERE IN IOWA.  YES, IT IS AN AMBITIOUS PROGRAM BUT I KNOW THAT OUR PANELISTS ARE UP TO THE TASK.  FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE THE REVEREND KATHLEEN MOORE WHO IS THE PASTOR OF 2 CHURCHES HERE IN IOWA, THE NEW CREATION UNITED METHODIST CHURCH AND FAITH UNITED METHODIST CHURCH.  I AM PLEASED TO INTRODUCE SOMEBODY WHO REALLY IS AN EXPERT ON RACE RELATIONS, PROFESSOR ANGELA ONWUACHI-WILLIG WHO IS A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA’S LAW SCHOOL.  PROFESSOR WILLIG HAS DONE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON AND IS CURRENTLY TEACHING CLASSES ON FAMILY LAW, CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION AND IN THE YEAR 2006 PROFESSOR ONWUACHI-WILLIG RECEIVED THE DERIK A BELL AWARD WHICH IS GIVEN TO A FACULTY MEMBER WHO THROUGH ACTIVISM, MENTORING AND TEACHING IN SCHOLARSHIP HAS MADE AN EXTRAORDINARY CONTRIBUTION TO LEGAL EDUCATION, THE LEGAL SYSTEM FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE SO WELCOME.  AND FINALLY WE HAVE SOMEBODY HERE WHO IS AN IMPORTANT MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY, MCKENZLY WILSON WHO IS THE PAST PRESIDENT OF OUR LOCAL CHAPTER OF THE NAACP AND IS CURRENTLY WORKS WITH CHILDREN AND SPENDS QUITE A BIT OF TIME TEACHING OUR CHILDREN NOT TO HATE.  MR WILSON GREW UP IN THE SOUTH, SERVED OUR COUNTRY, LIVED OVERSEAS AND MOVED TO CEDAR RAPIDS IN 1974.  SO WELCOME TO YOU ALL.  LET’S START WITH KATHLEEN.  IT’S BEEN SOME TIME SINCE WHAT OCCURRED IN JEAN, LOUISIANA SO IF YOU WOULD HELP US, REMIND US WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS SMALL LOUISIANA TOWN THAT SPARKED SUCH CONTROVERSY AND HUGE PROTEST.

 

KATHLEEN: ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THIS CASE AARON IS THAT YES, IT HAS BEEN A YEAR SINCE THE INCIDENTS THAT PRECIPITATED EVERYTHING BEGAN BUT IT ACTUALLY HAS ONLY BEEN IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, ONLY THE LAST FEW WEEKS THAT WE’VE HEARD ABOUT THIS.  I REMEMBER HEARING AT THE VERY END OF JULY ON NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO, THEY DID A FAIRLY COMPLETE LOOK AT IT.  IN MAY, HOWARD WITT OF THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE BROKE THE STORY IN MAJOR PRESS BUT BEFORE THAT IT WAS ON BLOGS AND THERE WERE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA WHO WERE TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT TO SAY SOMETHING AWFUL IS GOING ON IN LOUISIANA.  WHAT WE TEND TO HEAR NOW PARTLY BECAUSE THE STORY’S BEEN OUT THERE FOR A WHILE AND WE DON’T GET THE WHOLE THING EVERY TIME IT’S REFERRED TO, I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT NOOSES THAT WERE HUNG OVER THIS TREE THAT THE WHITE STUDENTS SAT UNDER AND THE BLACK STUDENTS ASKED PERMISSION TO SIT UNDER.  THE NOOSES WERE HUNG AND THEN THE NEXT THING WE DO IS JUMP TO THE YOUNG MEN THAT WE’VE COME TO CALL THE JENA 6 ATTACKING THE YOUNG WHITE MAN AND WHAT’S COME FROM THAT WITH SOME VERY SERIOUS CHARGES GIVEN.  BUT IN BETWEEN THERE WAS A LOT GOING ON IN THAT COMMUNITY.  IN ADDITION TO THE NOOSES ON THE TREE, FOLLOWING THAT, THE BLACK STUDENTS HAD A DEMONSTRATION, A SILENT DEMONSTRATION WHERE MOST OF THE STUDENTS IN THE SCHOOL, THE BLACK STUDENTS WENT OUT AND STOOD UNDER THE TREE SILENTLY.  THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY SEEMED TO SEE THIS AS A DANGEROUS THING AND SORT OF TOLD THEM THEY BETTER SETTLE DOWN AND THE BLACK STUDENTS FELT THAT HE WAS VERY DIRECTLY SPEAKING TO THEM, THAT HE WAS SORT OF THREATENING THEM, HE HELD UP HIS FOUNTAIN PEN AND SAID WITH THE STROKE OF THIS PEN I CAN CONTROL YOUR LIFE.  IT WENT ON, IT BUILT, FISTFIGHTS AND OTHER KINDS OF FIGHTS WENT ON, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF INSTANCES WHERE WHITES WERE ATTACKING BLACKS AND NOT BEING CHARGED AND THEN FINALLY AFTER THE SCHOOL HAD BEEN PARTIALLY BURNT THE CENTRAL WING OF IT WAS BURNT DOWN IN NOVEMBER, FINALLY IN DECEMBER ON THE 4^TH I BELIEVE, WAS WHEN THERE WAS THIS ONE FIGHT IN WHICH 6 BLACK STUDENTS DID ATTACK THIS ONE WHITE STUDENT AND HURT HIM SERIOUSLY BUT NOT SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO REQUIRE HOSPITALIZATION. 

 

AARON: AND THEY WERE CHARGED WITH

 

KATHLEEN: WITH ATTEMPTED MURDER. 

 

AARON: SO ANGELA IF WE COULD BRING YOU IN, YOU’VE DONE MUCH RESEARCH ON RACE RELATIONS SO TELL US WHAT OCCURRED IN JENA, HOW IT WAS SUCH A BREACH OF JUSTICE.  GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHY LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED WE CAN SAY THERE WAS A REAL BREACH OF JUSTICE THAT TOOK PLACE THERE.

 

ANGELA: OH CERTAINLY.  THE FIRST BREACH OF JUSTICE TOOK PLACE AT THE SCHOOL, AT THE SCHOOL LEVEL WHERE YOU HAD THE PRINCIPLE WHO TOOK ACTION AND HE ACTUALLY EXPELLED, HE ACTUALLY EXPELLED THE STUDENTS WHO HAD HUNG THE NOOSE ON THE TREE.  SO I THINK HE SENT A VERY STRONG STATEMENT THAT THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR IN THE SCHOOL AND THEN THAT DECISION WAS OVERTURNED BY THE SCHOOL BOARD AND SO THAT WAS REALLY THE FIRST BREACH OF JUSTICE, NOT TAKING ACTION WHEN THERE WAS ESSENTIALLY SOME SORT OF HATE CRIME THAT TOOK PLACE.  THE SECOND BREACH OF JUSTICE WAS IN SORT OF THE EXAGGERATED CHARGES THAT WERE PLACED ON THE STUDENTS, THE ATTEMPTED MURDER CHARGES, ESPECIALLY GIVING AS MISS MOORE HAS INDICATED, THE, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A VIOLENCE INVOLVED, THAT THERE WAS NOT SERIOUS HARM, HARM ENOUGH TO INDICATE THAT THERE WAS AN ATTEMPTED MURDER TAKING PLACE.  ALSO, THAT THERE WASN’T SIMILAR ACTION TAKEN AGAINST WHITE STUDENTS WHO HAD JUMPED A BLACK STUDENT PREVIOUSLY.  THERE WERE A LOT OF INJUSTICES THAT TOOK PLACE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CASE.  I THINK THE JENA 6 INCIDENT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT’S HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.  THERE ARE PLENTY OF DISPARITIES, THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN PRISON ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN, THERE IS DISCRIMINATION IN THE WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE RACIALLY PROFILED WHEN THEY’RE STOPPED FOR SUSPICION OF A CRIME, THERE’S DISCRIMINATION IN PROSECUTORS DECISIONS ABOUT WHO THEY’LL PROSECUTE AND WHETHER THEY’LL PROSECUTE AND FOR WHAT CRIMES.  THE PROSECUTORS WE SAW IN JENA 6 AND SO THERE’S REALLY DISCRIMINATION AT EVERY LEVEL OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND WE JUST SEE THIS PLAY OUT, MAYBE MORE BLATANTLY IN JENA 6 OR MAYBE IT’S JUST BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION. 

 

AARON: MCKENZLY, YOU CERTAINLY HAS SPENT YOUR ADULTHOOD TEACHING PEOPLE NOT TO HATE.  WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN, WHEN NOOSES ARE PLACED ON THE TREE, HOW’S THAT MAKE YOU FEEL AND HOW DO YOU PERSONALLY REACT AND HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND OTHERS REACT?

 

MCKENZLY: PERSONALLY, I’M DISAPPOINTED THAT THESE THINGS HAPPEN BUT I’M MORE DISAPPOINTED IN THE LACK OF REACTION THAT WE GET FROM THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.  IN OTHER WORDS, WE ALL SHOULD BE APPALLED THAT THIS IS 2007 AND INDIVIDUALLY THERE ARE MANY THINGS WE COULD DO.  COLLECTIVELY, WE COULD DO MORE AND I’M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT THE NAACP OR ANY PARTICULAR ORGANIZATION I’M TALKING ABOUT WE AS A MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE.  WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THINGS DIFFERENTLY UNTIL WE DETERMINE THE ERROR OF OUR THINKING, WE’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY CHANGES.  BELIEVE ME, INDIVIDUALLY YOU CAN DO THINGS AT YOUR JOB NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE.  IF YOU SEE ANY FORM OF RACISM OR YOU THINK IT IS, JUST MAKE A NOTE MAKE THE APPROPRIATE ATTENTION AND SET UP PROGRAMS TO ERADICATE THIS BECAUSE AFTER ALL, WHEN YOU ARE BORN, THERE’S NOTHING THERE THAT SAYS THAT YOU ARE RACIST.  THESE ARE LEARNED THINGS AND WE HAVE TO GET TO THE TEACHERS WHICH MEANS THE PARENTS AND THE ORGANIZATIONS AND WHAT DO THEY ASSOCIATE WITH.  I’M VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT OUR LEADER OF THIS COUNTRY TALKING ABOUT SERVING AND SPREADING DEMOCRACY ALL OVER THIS WORLD AND HE’S ENTIRELY ERRONEOUS IN HIS THINKING.  HE IS NOT IN CHARGE OF THE WORLD, GOD IS.  HE SHOULD JUST STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE WHAT I’M DOING IS BEST FOR YOU, WHAT’S BEST FOR HIM. 

 

AARON: ANGELA, IF YOU THINK THAT, TALK TO US ABOUT THESE BREACHES OF JUSTICE THAT ARE TAKING PLACE AND DISCRIMINATION AND PREJUDICES CERTAINLY STILL EXIST, DO YOU SEE IT WORSENING NOW, ARE WE SLOWLY GETTING BETTER, WHERE DO WE STAND THESE DAYS?  THE JENA 6 AND WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE TERRIBLE HURRICANE AND HOW THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY WAS TREATED IN NEW ORLEANS AND THROUGHOUT THE DEEP SOUTH, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THE STATE OF RACE RELATIONS NOW AND PARTICULARLY HOW AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE TREATED IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM?

 

ANGELA: IN A WAY YOU COULD SAY IT’S BETTER RIGHT BECAUSE WE HAVE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, WE HAVE THE TITLE 7 RIGHTS ACT THAT PROTECTS PEOPLE IN THE WORKPLACE.  YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE MOVING INTO PROFESSIONAL JOBS SO THERE ARE, YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE VOTING THAN WERE VOTING IN THE PAST, SO IN SOME WAYS YOU CAN POINT TO CERTAIN SIGNS OF PROGRESS IN TERMS OF RACE RELATIONS BUT I THINK IN A WAY IT’S MUCH WORSE BECAUSE THE WAY, I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT RACISM, MOST PEOPLE, THEY TEND TO THINK OF REALLY BLATANT, OBVIOUS ACTS OF DISCRIMINATION.  THEY DON’T THINK ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH RACISM IS INSTITUTIONALIZED, THEY DON’T THINK ABOUT SUBTLE FORMS OF RACISM.  ONE FACT IS, PEOPLE AREN’T INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER ANY MORE THAN THEY WERE IN THE PAST.  SO THE SCHOOLS NOW ARE MORE SEGREGATED THAN THEY WERE IN THE 1970'S.  IN PARTICULAR, WHITE STUDENTS ARE THE MOST SEGREGATED.  MOST WHITE STUDENTS ATTEND A SCHOOL THAT IS 80% WHITE OR MORE.  YOU HAVE PEOPLE NOT INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER, NOT LEARNING FROM EACH OTHER, YOU HAVE THEM MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT RACE, PEOPLE ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE WAY IN WHICH RACE MIGHT FUNCTION AND THAT’S NOT NECESSARILY BLATANTLY OBVIOUS BUT THAT MAY BE MORE UNDER COVER, THAT MAY BE MORE SUBTLE FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION WHETHER IT NOT BEING ABLE TO CATCH A CAB, WHETHER IT BE A COMMENT THAT SOMEONE MAKES THAT’S ** WHETHER IT BE THE STYLE OF HAIR THAT’S CONSIDERED TO BE UNPROFESSIONAL IN THE WORKPLACE.  THERE ARE MANY SUBTLE FORMS OF RACISM THAT ARE BEING IGNORED.  IN A WAY I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT’S GETTING WORSE JUST BECAUSE WE AREN’T ANGRY, PEOPLE DON’T GET ANGRY WHEN THEY HEAR ABOUT JENA 6 BECAUSE THEY THINK IT’S A RARE INCIDENT.  IT’S A STANDOUT INCIDENT.  IT’S SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T HAPPEN EVERY DAY AND THEY’RE COMPLETELY UNAWARE THAT THESE THINGS HAPPEN EVERY DAY.

 

KATHLEEN: AND IT’S FAIRLY EASY TO SAY WELL, I WOULD NEVER HANG A NOOSE.  SO WE CAN DISMISS OUR OWN RACISM BY JUST ASSUMING THAT BECAUSE I WOULDN’T DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN IT’S OK.

 

ANGELA: EXACTLY.  I THINK MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT WAY. 

 

AARON: BEVERLY TAYLOR WAS THE PRESIDENT OF SPELLMAN COLLEGE AND AUTHOR OF CAN WE TALK ABOUT RACE AND OTHER CONVERSATIONS IN AN ERA OF SCHOOL REFORM.  SHE WROTE A COLUMN IN THE WASHINGTON POST COMPARING WHAT HAPPENED 50 YEARS AGO WHEN THE 9 AFRICAN AMERICAN TEENAGERS HAD TO BE ESCORTED INTO CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL BY NATIONAL GUARDSMEN IN LITTLE ROCK IN FRONT OF AN ANGRY WHITE MOB AND THEN HERE WE HAVE A GROUP OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO JUST WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HANG OUT UNDER A TREE IN THE SHADE IN THE HOT SUN, HAVE THINGS REALLY CHANGED AND IN HER ARTICLE SHE BEMOANED THE FACT THAT WE MISS SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES OF TEACHING MOMENTS.  YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW THE STUDENTS PROTESTED AND THEN THEY WERE SILENCED BY THE SCHOOL BOARD.  AS THE RACIAL TENSION SIMMERED, WE DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE TO, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT CHANCE FOR SENATOR MARY ANDREW TO HAVE EXPLAINED WHY SHE INTRODUCED THE RESOLUTION APOLOGIZING THAT THE SENATE HADN’T PASSED ANTI LYNCHING LEGISLATION DESPITE REPEATED ATTEMPTS THROUGHOUT THE 20^TH CENTURY.  WHITE STUDENTS MIGHT THEN HAVE REALIZED AND IN THE WORDS OF HER RESOLUTION THAT THE CRIME OF LYNCHING SUCCEEDED SLAVERY AS THE ULTIMATE EXPRESSION OF RACISM IN THE UNITED STATES AND SO THERE ARE TEACHING MOMENTS THAT WERE MISSED.  THEY DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE FOR THE LEADERS IN JENA, WHITE LEADERS AND BLACK LEADERS COMING TOGETHER AND SAYING NO, WE’RE NOT GOING TO LET THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN OUR COMMUNITY.  IT’S SAD THAT THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AND FORTUNATELY THIS PROBABLY DID GET NATIONAL COVERAGE.  LOOK HERE IN IOWA, OUR AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION IS NOT SO LARGE HERE IN IOWA AND DO YOU FEEL THAT RACE RELATIONS ARE GETTING BETTER HERE.  KATHLEEN YOU’VE LIVED HERE FOR A WHILE AND MCKENZLY YOU’VE LIVED HERE FOR MANY YEARS, WHAT DO YOU NOTICE?

 

MCKENZLY: WELL I WOULD SAY GETTING BETTER AND IS BETTER ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.  THE THING IS, THE FREQUENCY OF THESE INCIDENTS ARE DECLINING MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE INTERACTION OF THE LEADERS IN THIS COMMUNITY.  IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT OCCURS, SOMEONE IS GOING TO REPORT IT EITHER TO US OR ** OR WHAT HAVE YOU. ************ THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT HEY, COME IN ANY TIME, WE’RE GOING TO DISCUSS IT.  THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT.  BUT THE INCIDENT THAT WAS OCCURRING, I DON’T THINK IS ON THE DECLINE BUT THE REPORTING MECHANISM GIVES US ADEQUATE DATA TO GO AND START GETTING CORRECTIVE ACTION.  BELIEVE ME THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT HOWEVER, WE’RE STILL NOT GETTING QUALITY CHANGES WHICH ARE PERMANENT.  LET’S GO BACK TO THE WORK POLITICALIZING.  I DON’T CARE WHAT AREA YOU WALK INTO, WHETHER IT’S THE SUPERINTENDENT OR WHETHER IT’S THE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR WHAT THE CASE MIGHT BE.  THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.  LET’S BE HONEST, HE IS GOING TO CATER TO HIS CONSTITUENTS WHO PUT HIM IN OFFICE.  THE SAME THING FOR THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.  THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THE SAME THING APPLIES.  YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE ALL OF THOSE ERAS OTHERWISE CHANGE WILL NOT OCCUR. *** REACTION TO WHAT HAPPENS, RESPONSE TIMES AND SO FORTH.  WE HAVE INSTANCES IN CEDAR RAPIDS IN THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHICH SHOULD NOT OCCUR BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IT’S OCCURRING BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THAT KID IS LIVING IN AND TO CORRECT IT YOU MUST GET INTO THAT ENVIRONMENT, SEE WHAT HAS TO BE DONE AND CORRECT IT.  THAT’S NOT EASY TO DO BUT IT’S NECESSARY TO BE DONE.  THE FIGURES OF THESE INCIDENTS ARE NOT DECLINING, THE REPORTING IN INCREASING AND THE ACTION IS GETTING THERE.  WE HAVE A SAYING THAT WE ONLY TALK TO PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE DECISIONS.  IN OTHER WORDS, WHY SHOULD I GO TALK TO YOU, WHY SHOULDN’T I GO TO THE SUPERINTENDENT OR THE BOARD OF EDUCATION SO WE CAN GET THE DECISION MADE PROMPTLY.  TOO MUCH IS HAPPENING WHERE WE HAVE GOOD PEOPLE IN POSITION BUT THE INFORMATION IS LAUNDERED BEFORE IT GETS TO THE TOP SO THEY CAN’T MAKE THE BEST DECISION AND WHEN I WALK IN SAY SO AND SO THEY SAY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING?  YES.  WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE BEING DONE TO CIRCUMVENT THE PROGRESS THAT SHOULD BE MADE.  IT’S NOT BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD INTENTIONS BUT THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE.  WHEN I SAY SYSTEM,  I’M TALKING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUALS IN THE SYSTEM.

 

I’M CURIOUS, WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE YOU GET IF SAY YOU GET A COMPLAINT ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN GRADE SCHOOL AND YOU NEED TO GO TALK TO PARENTS.  WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE IS TYPICAL?

 

MCKENZLY: I DON’T GET INVOLVED WITH THE PARENTS TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.  I GET INVOLVED WHEN THE PARENTS CALL ME AND SAY THESE ARE WHAT WAS USED AND SO AND SO AND OK, WHAT DID YOU DO AND WE TRACK IT OUT, WE HAVE A GOOD SYSTEM.  WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AS FAR AS DISCUSSING THESE THINGS AND SITTING DOWN.

 

SO THE SCHOOL KIND OF HANDLES THAT END OF IT THEN OF WORKING WITH THE OTHER FAMILY?

 

MCKENZLY: OF COURSE BUT WE DO NOT GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM WHEN THAT OCCUR.  WE WANT TO SEE STANDARDIZED PROCEDURES THAT ALL BUILDINGS USED, NOT THAT THIS SCHOOL DOES ONE WAY AND THIS SCHOOL DOES ANOTHER WAY.  THEY SHOULD ALL BE HANDLED THE SAME WAY.  IT SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL AREAS, IN OTHER WORDS, DON’T SUSPEND AND DO NOT SUSPEND.  ALL SHOULD BE SUSPENDED, OR WHAT DISCIPLINARY ACTION IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE?  THE ACTION THAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR IS LONG TERM.  HOW DO YOU GET BACK INTO THAT SITUATION AND DEALING WITH THE FAMILIES AND SAY LOOK, IT’S NOT THAT KIDS FAULT, IT’S THE ENVIRONMENT AND PARENTING SKILLS MUST BE TAUGHT AT AN EARLIER AGE AND WE COULD TALK HERE ALL NIGHT LONG TALKING ABOUT THIS AREA BECAUSE I SENSE YOU MUST GET INVOLVED WITH THE YOUTH SOONER THAN WE ARE NOW AND IT MUST BE A FORMALIZED PROGRAM THAT CAN BE CRITIQUED.  JUST AS IMPORTANT AS ANALYZING IT AND GETTING TOGETHER FROM ALL SEGMENTS OF THE POPULATION TO DEVELOP PLANS THAT CAN BE IMPLEMENTED.  NOT JUST STUDIED AND THEN 5 YEARS LATER SAY THIS IS A REPORT FROM THE YEAR 2002 TO 2007.  RIDICULOUS.

 

AARON: KATHLEEN YOU SAID THAT HOWARD WITT BROKE THE STORY.  HE RECENTLY HAS NOW PUBLISHED A REPORT.

 

KATHLEEN: YES, HOWARD WITT WHO BROKE THE STORY ON THE JENA 6 HAS JUST WITHIN THE PAST MONTH OR SO PUBLISHED A REPORT ON SOME WORK HE’S DONE WITH STATISTICS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.  HE HAD TO WORK REALLY HARD TO GET THESE, IT WAS HARD TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT BUT HE FOUND CLEAR INDICATIONS OF WHAT BLACK FOLKS ALREADY KNOW, THAT BLACK CHILDREN AND BLACK YOUTH ARE DISCIPLINED AT A FAR MORE OFTENER RATE AND A FAR MORE STRINGENT RATE THAN ANY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP IN ANY STATE ACROSS THE UNION EXCEPT IDAHO, THE BLACK STUDENTS HAVE. 

 

ANGELA: IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE ABSENCE OF BLACKS IN IDAHO?

 

KATHLEEN: HE HADN’T QUITE DECIDED THAT BUT THAT COULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.  HE ALSO SAID THAT WHEN HE PRESENTS THIS INFORMATION, HE TENDS TO GET TWO REACTIONS FROM WHITES.  NUMBER ONE REACTIONS IS WELL, THAT CAN’T BE TRUE.  YOU’RE STATISTICS MUST BE WRONG.  NUMBER TWO REACTION IS WELL, IT MUST BE BECAUSE BLACK KIDS ARE ACTING UP MORE.  I THINK THAT WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH THE JENA 6 GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY HEY, LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT OURSELVES, LET’S LOOK AT OUR OWN COMMUNITIES, LET’S LOOK AT OUR OWN SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND HEY, IF THIS IS TRUE FOR IOWA AS WELL AS EVERY OTHER STATE EXCEPT IDAHO THEN MAYBE WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND SAY WHAT CAN WE DO TO CHANGE OUR OWN RACIST SYSTEM.  OK, MAYBE WE WOULDN’T HAVE A JENA KIND OF INCIDENT GO ON BUT WE HAVE KIDS GETTING EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL AT A FAR GREATER RATE THAN THEIR CLASSMATES.  WE HAVE KIDS WHO GO ON TO OTHER KINDS OF CRIMES AND IT HAS A FAR REACHING EFFECT. 

 

MCKENZLY:  WHAT’S DISTURBING IS, I DON’T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WATCH C SPAN 2 WITH THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE?  I HAPPEN TO WATCH IT AND I WAS VERY DISTURBED AND I’M GOING TO TELL YOU WHY.  ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON WE HAD THE U.S. ATTORNEYS OFFICE THERE AND I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED.  FIRST OF ALL, THE INDIVIDUAL CHARGED WITH THAT PARTICULAR OFFICE IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN.  BUT I WAS PROUD WHEN HE SAID ONE THING, HE ACKNOWLEDGED HIS DEFICIENCY IN CERTAIN AREAS.  I THINK YOU HAD MR WOODRUFF FROM THE HARVARD SCHOOL AND YOU HAD THE SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN ALLIANCE THERE WHICH WERE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE BUT THE YOUNG LADY THAT WAS IN CHARGE OF THE COMMUNITY AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT WHICH INCLUDES CIVIL RIGHTS WAS NOT UP ON HER LAW BECAUSE WOODRUFF AND A COUPLE OF MORE REMINDED HER OF THEY COULD HAVE BROUGHT CHARGES AGAINST THE COUNTY ATTORNEY BASED ON THESE AND SHE SAID SHE DIDN’T KNOW AND THEY SAID WELL I KNOW BECAUSE I’VE DONE IT.  I WAS VERY IMPRESSED BY WOODRUFF BECAUSE I’M LIKE, THIS GUY IS VERY ARTICULATE AND THEY FINALLY PUT HIS NAME LIKE HARVARD SCHOOL OF LAW LIKE YES, I REMEMBER HIS NAME.  THE SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN ALLIANCE I REMEMBER BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS CALL ME AND WANT A DONATION.  I DON’T MIND.  THEY ARE VERY UP TO DATE ON THOSE THINGS TOO AND THEY WERE UP TO DATE WELL YOU COULD HAVE DONE A LOT OF THINGS.  THE U.S. ATTORNEY AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN SAYS I’M THE PRESIDENT, I AM NOT.  IT TAKES GUTS TO SAY THAT.  WHAT TAKES GUTS IS TO GO ON AIR WITH THOSE, I CALL THEM BIG GUNS.  I READ ABOUT WOODRUFF AND ALL THE OTHERS AND THEY’RE GOOD GUYS AND LOT OF YOU KNOW WHO TO CALL.  IT MEANS WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND COULD HAVE BEEN DONE.  ACTUALLY, AT THIS POINT I’M SAYING WHERE IS THE QUESTION, WHY WASN’T IT DONE?  THAT WAS THE QUESTION.  WHAT TOOK THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SO LONG?  YEARS AGO THE SAME LAW WAS ON THE BOOK BUT WE DID NOT HAVE AN ENFORCEMENT ON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.  NOW WE HAVE ENFORCEMENT ON THEM WHO LAGS BEHIND THE ORDINARY CITIZEN AND YOU’VE BEEN SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT RIGHT.  WHAT ** DO?  THEY SIMPLY TOLD THAT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY THAT YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, HE’S DISBARRED.  NOW, WHY IS IT DISBARMENT IN DUKE, NONE HERE?  SOUTHERN STATES, LOOK, WE HAVE TO ANSWER TO THOSE.  THESE ARE OFFICIALS THAT WE PAY.  ARE YOU WAITING FOR INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE TOP TO SAY NOW YOU DO SOMETHING BECAUSE IT’S POLITICALLY CORRECT?  IT’S TOO LATE IN NORTH CAROLINA, I’M SORRY, LOUISIANA.  BUT I READ AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY I READ HIM ALL THE TIME HE’S IN THE GAZETTE, PITCH.  THEY BROUGHT UP SEVERAL INCIDENTS OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED WITH THE WHITE KIDS AND HE WENT ON TO JUST EXPOUND ON THAT I DON’T KNOW THE NUMBERS COULD BE MULTIPLIED BY A THOUSAND WHERE HE SIMPLY SIGNED IT OFF BY SAYING THAT I APPRECIATE YOUR LETTER BUT YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.  WHAT I’M SAYING IS THAT FOR EVERY ONE INSTANCE THAT YOU CAN BRING WHERE A MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE OF THIS KID WHO PRECIPITATED THIS THING, YOU COULD NAME A THOUSAND THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING SOMETHING ALL THE TIME AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY OR THE COUNTY ATTORNEY OR ANY ATTORNEY, YOU JUST TAKE ACTION. 

 

AARON: ANGELA, TELL US SOME MORE WHAT WE AS CITIZENS, WHEN WE SEE, WHEN WE HEAR OF MCKENZLY SAYING, WHEN WE SEE THINGS THAT AREN’T RIGHT, WHAT SHOULD WE DO, WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND THAT WE SEE MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE OR WE SEE AN INCIDENT AT SCHOOL OR OUR COLLEAGUES, WHAT SHOULD WE DO SO WE CAN TRY TO CHANGE THE CLIMATE HERE IN IOWA?

ANGELA: I THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD SPEAK UP AND IN PARTICULAR I THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE THE EARS OF THE PEOPLE WHO MAY BE THE DISCRIMINATOR, WHETHER IT BE SUBTLE, WHETHER IT BE BLATANT CONSCIENCE DISCRIMINATION SHOULD SPEAK UP.  SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AND I SAY SOMETHING IT GETS INTERPRETED IN A CERTAIN WAY.  PEOPLE THINK THAT I’M BIASED OR MAYBE I’M NOT SEEING THINGS CLEARLY.  IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AND YOU SPEAK UP AND YOU SAY IT THEN MAYBE YOU HAVE THE EARS OF PEOPLE THAT I DON’T HAVE AND SO I THINK IT BECOMES IMPORTANT, NOT JUST FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR TO SPEAK UP BUT I THINK IT BECOMES IMPORTANT FOR WHITES TO SPEAK UP AND TO REPORT IT.  I ALSO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IN ADDRESSING AN UNCONSCIOUS RACISM RIGHT SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO IS JUST TALK ABOUT RACISM MORE.  ONE OF THE SAYINGS IS THAT RACISM IS NOT JUST WHAT YOU DO AND SAY BUT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DON’T DO AND DON’T SAY AND WE DON’T TALK ABOUT IT AND WE DON’T TALK ABOUT OUR OWN UNCONSCIOUS BIASES AND HOW THAT MAY EFFECT WHETHER WE DISCIPLINE BLACK STUDENTS MORE THAN WE DISCIPLINE OTHER STUDENTS THEN WE’RE REALLY SORT OF HELPING TO PERPETUATE IT AND THAT’S ONE OF THE DIFFICULT THINGS.  IT’S HARD TO REALLY SEE THE WAY IN WHICH YOU MAY BE UNCONSCIOUSLY RACIST OR UNCONSCIOUSLY BIASED BUT IN ORDER FOR US TO DO IT WE REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT AND SO I THINK REPORTING, I THINK REFLECTING ON OUR OWN FEELINGS AND VIEWS MORE AS NEEDED, IT’S A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO.  I THINK EMOTIONALLY IT’S HARD TO SAY THAT I’M ENGAGING IN WRONGFUL BEHAVIOR. 

 

KATHLEEN: AND I THINK THAT’S A PERFECT PLACE FOR PEOPLE OF FAITH TO BE STEPPING UP.  BECAUSE FOR TOO LONG WE’VE ALLOWED OURSELVES, WE’VE ALLOWED HISTORY TO GO ON WITHOUT US AND WE HAVEN’T STEPPED UP WHEN WE’VE NEEDED TO.  THIS IS A PERFECT PLACE FOR PEOPLE OF FAITH TO SAY LET’S EXPLORE RACE IN THIS SOCIETY, LET’S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO CHANGE IT. 

 

MCKENZLY: THAT’S A GOOD POINT BECAUSE I CONCUR 100%.  YOU SAY THAT SUNDAY IS THE MOST SEGREGATED DAY OF THE WEEK.  THAT’S TRUE AND I SAY WHY?  I HAVE NO PROBLEM GOING TO ANYONE’S CHURCH BUT LET’S BE HONEST, I CHOOSE BECAUSE OF OTHER REASONS OR BECAUSE I’M INVITED TO ANOTHER CHURCH.  I GO TO MOST CHURCHES, A LOT OF CHURCHES BUT TO SPEAK.  AT THE SAME TIME, THIS SHOULD NOT BE OCCURRING. 

 

AARON: THAT’S RIGHT AND WE OF PEOPLE OF FAITH NEED TO SPEAK UP AND ABSOLUTELY AND I JUST SHARE WITH YOU RECENTLY I HAD THIS SINGER SONGWRITER IN TOWN, SONJA WHO IS WORKING ON ENDING FEAR IN THE WORLD AND SHE WRITES IN HER SONG THAT THE WORLD IS READY TO DISAPPEAR FEAR AND IT’S TIME FOR US, I THINK WE ALL THINK TO STAND UP AND TO SAY WHAT’S HAPPENING IS NOT RIGHT AND THAT SOMEDAY WE WILL HELP MAKE THIS A BETTER PLACE AND WHERE EVERYONE CAN FEEL COMFORTABLE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LISTENING TO US HERE ON ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.