MARY: GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.  MY NAME IS MARY DUCEY AND I TEACH ETHICS AT ONE OF OUR LOCAL COLLEGES.  TODAYS ETHICAL ISSUE MAY NOT BE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE WORLD BUT IT’S AN INTERESTING ONE.  YOU MAY HAVE READ ABOUT THIS.  IN DECEMBER OF 2006 THE BOARD OF HEALTH IN NEW YORK CITY VOTED UNANIMOUSLY THAT ALL RESTAURANTS IN THE CITY WERE REQUIRED TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TRANS FAT IN ALL OF THEIR FOOD TO LESS THAN ONE HALF GRAM PER SERVING.  THIS IS AN INTERESTING ISSUE BECAUSE IT TOUCHES ON ISSUES ABOUT, PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUES LIKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN OUR LIVES.  OTHER CITIES ARE FOLLOWING SUIT, THEY CHANGED THE LAW IN BOSTON, I HEAR CHICAGO IS CONSIDERING A BAN, THE ENTIRE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IS CONSIDERING A BAN.  WE KNOW THAT HEART DISEASE IS THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES.  IT’S ALSO THE BIGGEST CAUSE OF DEATH IN NEW YORK CITY AND THE CITY ENACTED THE BAN IN THE NAME OF THE COMMON GOOD.  THEY HELD PUBLIC HEARINGS AND ELICITED COMMENTS FROM CITIZENS BEFORE THE LEGISLATION AND 95% OF THE COMMENTS SUPPORTED THE BAN.  THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ALSO RECENTLY COMMISSIONED A SCIENTIFIC POLL AND THEY REPORTED THAT 61% OF AMERICANS SUPPORT SUCH LEGISLATION.  ON THE OTHER HAND ABC NEWS COMMENTATOR JOHN STOSSEL, YOU’VE SEEN HIM ON THIS STATION I’M SURE, CALLED THIS LAW JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT HE CALLS THE NANNY STATE.  LEGISLATION THAT REGARDS ADULTS AS CHILDREN WHO CANNOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR.  SO, DO WE REALLY NEED A FOOD POLICE?  TO HELP US ANSWER THIS QUESTION WE HAVE 3 INTERESTED PARTIES WHO PLAY DIFFERENT ROLES IN THE FOOD SYSTEM IN OUR AREA.  TO MY LEFT IS JOHN HUNTINGTON AND YOU RECOGNIZE HIS NAME FROM THE NICE HUNTINGTON RESTAURANT BUT JOHN IS ALSO THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF THE IOWA RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION SO THANK YOU FOR REPRESENTING THE RESTAURANT OWNERS.  NEXT WE’VE GOT JUDY FITZGIBBONS WHO IS A DIETICIAN AT HY VEE ON JOHNSON AVENUE AND HAS A MASTERS DEGREE IN FOOD SCIENCE.  SHE’S BROUGHT SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT HAVE DIFFERENT KINDS OF FAT SO WE’LL LEARN FROM YOU WHAT TRANS FAT IS.  AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST WE HAVE THE DIRECTOR OF THE LINN COUNTY PUBLIC HEALTH WHICH WHO’S KEITH ERICKSON AND I HOPE YOU CAN TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT SUCH A BAN MIGHT ENTAIL FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU.  ALL 3 OF OUR GUESTS HAVE BEEN ON THE SHOW BEFORE AND WELCOME BACK EVERYBODY, THANK YOU.  LET’S START TALKING.  JUDY, WHAT’S TRANS FAT AND WHY IS IT SUCH AN ISSUE?

 

JUDY: WELL TRANS FAT IS A FORM OF FAT THAT IS CREATED WHEN WE MAKE SHORTENINGS, WHEN WE MAKE MARGARINES SO I BROUGHT IN SOME EXAMPLES FROM THE GROCERY STORE SO KIND OF PEOPLE GET THE IDEA OF WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT.  WHEN WE TAKE SOY BEANS FOR EXAMPLE AND CREATE SOY BEAN OIL IT’S VERY LIQUID.  LIQUID OIL IS GREAT FOR FRYING, IT’S GOOD FOR SALAD DRESSINGS BUT IT DOESN’T WORK VERY WELL IN BAKED GOODS FOR EXAMPLE SO WAY BACK WHEN SOMEONE FIGURED OUT THAT WE COULD DO A PROCESS CALLED HYDROGENATION WHICH IS A CHEMICAL PROCESS WHICH TAKES THOSE REALLY SLIPPERY SOY BEAN OIL OR CORN OIL MOLECULES AND MAKES THEM KIND OF CROOKED SO THAT THEY STICK TOGETHER AND THE ULTIMATE WOULD BE SHORTENING WHICH IS ON THE OTHER END AND SHORTENING HAS GOT SOME VERY NICE PROPERTIES.  IT LETS YOU MAKE FROSTING FOR EXAMPLE.  SHORTENING LETS YOU GET REALLY FLAKY PIE CRUST.  SHORTENING HAS A BETTER SHELF LIFE, THINGS LAST LONGER ON THE SHELF.  SO THERE WAS FROM A FOOD STAND POINT THERE WAS SOME REALLY GOOD REASONS TO HAVE HYDROGENATED FAT.  WE MOVED TO OLEO MARGARINE.  SOME PEOPLE MAY REMEMBER, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT OLEO RATHER THAN MARGARINE.  KEITH AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THINGS WE REMEMBER.  SO HYDROGENATION WAS A WAY OF TAKING THE SOY BEAN OIL, THE CORN OIL AND MAKING A SPREAD. 

 

MARY: SO TRANS FAT AND HYDROGENATED FAT ARE THE SAME THING. 

 

JUDY: NO, THEY’RE NOT THE SAME THING.  TRANS FAT IS A BI PRODUCT OF THE HYDROGENATION PROCESS AND IT HAS TO DO WITH THE SHAPES AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE SLIPPERY OIL MOLECULES IN THE PROCESS OF HYDROGENATION.  WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED IN RECENT YEARS IS THAT SATURATED FAT IS REALLY HARD ON OUR ARTERIES, IT’S ATHROGENIC, IT RAISES BLOOD CHOLESTEROL.  WE’VE ALSO LEARNED THAT TRANS FAT SEEMS TO BE EVEN MORE ATHROGENIC THAN SATURATED FATS SO WHILE HYDROGENATION WAS CREATED WITH, INSTITUTED WITH THE IDEA OF MAKING IT A FAT MORE USABLE, IT DOES HAVE, TURNS OUT THIS LITTLE PORTION THAT HAS TRANS FAT IS NOT SO GOOD FOR US.  ONE OF THE OTHER THING THAT HYDROGENATION DOES TOO I SHOULD MENTION IS THAT IT MAKES FATS MORE HEAT STABLE.  HYDROGENATED FAT, YOU PUT IT IN A COOKING FIRE YOU CAN TAKE IT TO A VERY HIGH TEMPERATURE, YOU CAN REUSE IT AND REUSE IT AND REUSE IT AND IT DOESN’T GET NASTY.  ISN’T THAT A NICE RESTAURANT TERM IS NASTY.  IT’S NOT RANCID, IT’S DEGRADED IT POLYMERIZES, IT GETS STICKY. 

 

JOHN: IT GETS STICKY, IT TAKES ON DIFFERENT TASTES AND IT WILL DEVELOP A BURNT FLAVOR QUICKER.  WE HAVE TO DISCARD IT QUICKER VERSUS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HYDROGENATED OIL THAT WE CAN USE LONGER.  IT EXTENDS THE LIFE OF THE OIL. 

 

JUDY:  SO THERE WERE SOME REALLY GOOD REASONS FOR HYDROGENATING OIL WITH THE WAY THE FOOD SUPPLY AND THE DEMAND BUT

 

MARY: CAN I ASK YOU ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THE SCIENCE?  WHAT’S PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED?

 

JUDY: WELL A TOTALLY HYDROGENATED FAT MEANS THAT ALL EVERY NICE STRAIGHT SLIPPERY MOLECULE IS MADE CROOKED SO IT’S A REAL HARD SOLID FAT, RAISES THE SMOKE POINT YOU CAN HEAT IT TO A MUCH HIGHER TEMPERATURE, IT’S MUCH MORE STABLE.  PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED MEANS YOU’VE GOT SOME THAT ARE STRAIGHT AND SOME THAT ARE CROOKED SO IT IS PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED BUT WHENEVER YOU’VE GOT HYDROGENATION YOU DO HAVE SOME TRANS FAT CREATED.

 

MARY: AND ARE THESE TRANS FATS WORSE THAN SATURATED FATS FOR US?

 

JUDY: YES.  THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATED IS CURRENTLY RECOMMENDING THAT PEOPLE HAVE NO MORE THAN ACTUALLY 2 GRAMS OF TRANS FAT A DAY WHEREAS WE CAN HAVE UP TO 12 AND 15 GRAMS OF SATURATED FAT AND NOT HURT THE HEART SO THIS IS THE HARD PART, IT’S SUCH A TINY AMOUNT OF TRANS FAT THAT ISN’T GOOD FOR US.

 

MARY: IN NEW YORK THE BAN IS YOU CAN HAVE UP TO A HALF GRAM PER SERVING.

 

JUDY:   RIGHT AND ACCORDING TO THE CURRENT

 

MARY: SO IT’S NOT A COMPLETE BAN.

 

JUDY: YEAH AND THE CURRENT LABELING LAWS OF FOOD CAN BE CALLED A 0 TRANS FAT FOOD AND HAVE UP TO .4 GRAMS OF TRANS FAT PER SERVING.  THAT’S BIG AND YOU CAN’T MEASURE FAT IN MICRO GRAMS SO YOU KNOW THERE ARE SOME PROBLEMATIC ISSUES HERE WITH HOW DO YOU MEASURE.  BUT THE DIFFICULT PART FROM A HEALTH STAND POINT IS WHERE THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION IS RECOMMENDING SUCH A SMALL AMOUNT.  THOSE .4'S CAN ADD UP.  NOW .4 IS CERTAINLY BETTER THAN 6 WHICH IS A TRADITIONAL SHORTENING YOU CAN HAVE 5 OR 6 GRAMS OF THAT TOTAL SATURATED FAT AND 2 OR 3 OF THE TRANS FAT SO MAYBE THAT’S MORE SCIENCE THAN YOU WANTED.

 

MARY: I NEEDED THAT.

 

JUDY: BUT IT IS.  THERE ARE PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS HERE, WE KNOW THE TRANS FAT IS REALLY NASTY ON THE ARTERIES AND WE’RE GOING TO MAKE FOOD CHOICES AND IF WE’VE GOT A TENDENCY TO HEART DISEASE THEN THAT MAY MAKE SOME, HAVE SOME PRESSURE ON JUST WHAT WE CHOOSE TO EAT AT THE RESTAURANT.  MAYBE I’M NOT GOING TO HAVE THE FRENCH FRIES QUITE AS OFTEN AND I’M GOING TO GO FOR THAT NICE GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST. 

 

MARY: DO YOU WANT TO TELL US WHICH IS BETTER AND WHICH IS WORSE HERE?

 

JUDY: WELL I DON’T THINK THERE’S A BETTER OR WORSE.  THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT WELL, OIL IS OIL BUT OIL DOESN’T WORK IN EVERYTHING FOOD WISE.  I’VE GRABBED THE COOKIES BECAUSE THE COOKIES HAVE THE SATURATED FAT AND THEY STILL HAVE TRANS FAT IN THEM.  IT’S THESE KINDS OF BAKED GOODS THAT WHEN YOU STILL HAVE TO USE SHORTENING TO GET A CRISPY COOKIE TO MAKE THE FROSTING WORK SO IF YOU WANT TO EAT FAMOUS AMOS VANILLA SANDWICH COOKIES YOU’RE GOING TO GET SOME SATURATED FAT AND YOU’RE GOING TO GET SOME TRANS FAT BY THE NATURE OF THAT.  I DON’T THINK THEY COULD MAKE A FAMOUS AMOS COOKIE THAT WOULD BE RIGHT AS WE EXPECT IT WITHOUT THAT KIND OF SHORTENING IN IT.  SO FROM A DIETICIAN STANDPOINT I’M SAYING YEAH, LESS IS BETTER, MAYBE I JUST DON’T BUY MY FAMOUS AMOS COOKIES QUITE AS OFTEN.  SAME THING GOING TO A LIGHTER MARGARINE.  CERTAINLY A SOFT MARGARINES IS BETTER THAN A STICK MARGARINE.  TO HAVE A STICK WE’VE GOT TO HAVE THE TRANS FAT IN IT.  IT JUST DOESN’T WORK OTHERWISE.  SO, MAKING THOSE DECISIONS, MAKING THOSE DECISIONS.  THE INTERESTING THING I’LL JUST ADD AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON IS FOR SOME OF THE PRODUCTS WE’RE SEEING WHERE THEY TAKE OUT THE HYDROGENATED SHORTENING AND WE’RE PUTTING THE TROPICAL OILS BACK IN AND KEITH AND I REMEMBER WHEN THERE WERE THESE BIG CAMPAIGNS TO GET THE TROPICAL OILS OUT OF FOODS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SATURATED FAT TOO.  IT’S KIND OF HARD TO MATCH THE TASTE AND MATCH THE CONSISTENCY AND CHANGE THE INGREDIENT.

 

MARY: I READ TODAY THAT THE SPOKESPERSON FOR WENDYS SAID THAT THEY, WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TRANS FAT IS NOT SO MUCH THE FAT YOU USE AT HOME IN YOUR OWN COOKING BUT FAT THAT’S IN FAST FOOD, IN PREPARED FOOD AND IN RESTAURANT FOOD AND WENDYS SAID THAT THEY CHANGED ALL OF THEIR COOKING OVER TO TRANS FAT OR AWAY FROM THE TRANS FAT AND THAT NOBODY NOTICED THE DIFFERENCE AND THAT IT WAS COST NEUTRAL.

 

JUDY: WHAT DO YOU USE FOR YOUR COOKING OIL?

 

JOHN: I USE THE TRANS FAT FREE OIL TOO.  IT TOOK US ALMOST A YEAR TO FIND A TRANS FAT FREE OIL THAT DIDN’T CHANGE THE TASTE AND THE FLAVOR AND THE PROFILE OF THE FOOD, THE TEXTURE, THE CRISPINESS OF IT AND KEEP IT IN A COST MARGIN THAT WAS AFFORDABLE FOR US.

 

JUDY:  CAUSE THE ISSUE IS IT DOESN’T LAST AS LONG.

 

JOHN: IT DOESN’T LAST AS LONG AND WHEN THESE TRANS FAT FREE OILS FIRST CAME OUT ON THE MARKET THEY WERE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.  THEY REALLY REALLY WERE.  NOW, IN THE LAST YEAR, TWO YEARS THEY BECAME MORE ABUNDANT AND THE PRICES CAME DOWN BUT THE ISSUE IS THAT TO GO ACROSS THE BOARD, ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, MAKING EVERYBODY GO TRANS FAT FREE RIGHT NOW, IT WOULDN’T BE ENOUGH OIL TO GO AROUND.

 

JUDY: AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES.  TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO THE IOWA SOY BEAN PEOPLE PROMOTED A PRODUCT CALLED ASOYA WHICH IS A WONDERFUL OIL WHICH IS MODIFIED TO BE MORE HEAT STABLE BUT THERE’S NO WAY.  WE TALKED AT HY VEE WOULDN’T THIS BE GREAT TO HAVE ALL OF THIS IN OUR CHINESE AND IN OUR KITCHEN THEY COULDN’T PROVIDE ENOUGH JUST FOR THE HY VEE RESTAURANT.  NOW, OUR CHINESE HAS JUST MOVED TO USING A PURE SOY BEAN OIL.  I WAS JUST TALKING TO THE MANAGER AT THE JOHNSON AVE STORE TODAY AND HE SAYS YEAH IT’S WORKING GREAT, IT DOESN’T KEEP QUITE AS LONG BUT HE SAYS PEOPLE CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE. 

 

MARY: I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR TOO IN NEW YORK THEY GAVE PEOPLE 18 MONTHS TO MAKE THE SWITCH AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH GROUP GAVE ACTUAL ASSISTANCE TO RESTAURANTS IN MAKING THE SWITCH AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT 3 CATEGORIES, STUFF YOU FRY WITH, STUFF YOU MAKE PASTRY WITH LIKE PIE CRUSTS AND SPREADABLE STUFF AND THERE WERE DIFFERENT ALLOWANCES FOR EACH CATEGORY AND I GUESS IT’S THE PIE CRUST THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE WORST TIME WITH BUT THEY GAVE TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO RESTAURANTS.  IT DIDN’T SEEM LIKE A VERY ADVERSARIAL THING LIKE THE HEALTH PEOPLE CAME DOWN LIKE A TON OF BRICKS ON RESTAURANTS.  THEY REALLY SEEMED TO BE WORKING TOGETHER.  YOU KNOW KEITH, WHY DON’T YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT SOME OF THE ISSUES MIGHT BE IN ENFORCING SUCH A LEGISLATION.

 

KEITH: WELL, I GUESS WE ARE THE FOOD POLICE FOR THIS JURISDICTION.   WE HAVE 1100 PLUS RESTAURANTS AND FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS IN LINN COUNTY AND OF COURSE WE INSPECT ALL F THOSE AND WE INSPECT ALL OF THOSE AND IT’S NOT JUST RESTAURANTS, IT’S BARS AND ANYBODY THAT SERVES FOOD SO IT’S FOOD WAREHOUSES, GROCERY STORES, CONVENIENCE STORES, THERE’S SOME 1100 AND WE HAVE TO GO INTO EVERY ONE AT LEAST ONCE IF NOT TWICE OR THREE TIMES PLUS ANY COMPLAINTS WE GET AND WE’RE INTERESTED IN THE SAFETY OF THE FOOD.  WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHOLESOME FOODS NOW WE’RE TALKING ABOUT FOOD SAFETY.  THE PURITY OF THE FOOD, WE DON’T WANT TO SEE ADULTERATED FOOD, WE WANT TO SEE THE FOOD REPRESENTED IN A FAIR MANNER, IN OTHER WORDS PROPER LABELING AND ADVERTISEMENT AND SO ON.  THE THINGS THAT ARE CRITICAL FOR US ARE FOOD TEMPERATURES FOR INSTANCE.  HOT FOODS HOT, COLD FOOD COLD.

 

MARY: TO KEEP GERMS FROM GROWING.

 

KEITH: HOW DO YOU HANDLE THE WASTE WATER.  DO YOU HAVE A GOOD SOURCE OF WATER, EVERYTHING FROM WASHING DISHES TO WASHING HANDS, FOOD PREP AREAS AND SO WE’RE FOLLOWING A VERY RIGOROUS CODE AS JOHN CAN TELL YOU THAT’S THE FOOD CODE OF 1997, IT’S UNIVERSAL IN IOWA, EVERY COUNTY FOLLOWS THE SAME INSPECTION FORM AND YOU KNOW I CAN TELL YOU THAT TRANS FAT MONITORING IS NOT ON THAT LIST OF THINGS THAT WE LOOK FOR AND I’M NOT SURE HOW THE ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE ON IT.  I WOULD HOPE THERE WOULD BE AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS, THAT’S WHERE JUDY COMES IN, EDUCATING THE CONSUMERS AND THEN THEY’LL DEMAND THE SWITCHES.  PEOPLE LIKE JOHN WILL MAKE THEM            AND YOU KNOW THIS IS THE NATURAL PROGRESSION AND WE’VE SEEN THAT IN MANY THINGS JUST LIKE WE’RE SEEING IT IN SMOKING, THE RESTAURANTS GOING NON SMOKING. 

 

MARY: SO YOU WOULD NOT SUPPORT LEGISLATION THAT

 

KEITH: WELL I’D HAVE TO SEE IT BUT I WOULD, THERE’S PLENTY OF OTHER FOOD SAFETY ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO BE ADDRESSING.

 

MARY: LIKE WHAT?

 

KEITH: WELL, TERRORISM.  I MEAN THE SAFETY OF OUR FOOD SUPPLY IS PARAMOUNT AND WE’RE AN AGRICULTURAL STATE AND IF WE WERE TO GET HOOF AND MOUTH DISEASE IN OUR HERDS IT WOULD BE DISASTER FOR IOWA.  I’M TALKING ABOUT BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS AND SO THERE’S THINGS LIKE THIS WE’RE WORKING ON FOREIGN ANIMAL DISEASE THINGS WITH OUR FOOD SUPPLY AND IF WE GET AN AVIAN FLU IT’S GOING TO AFFECT OUR AGRICULTURE DRAMATICALLY AND SO THERE ARE SOME HUGE ISSUES LIKE THIS THAT.

 

MARY: THAT YOU THINK TAKE PRECEDENCE

 

KEITH: IT’S A MATTER OF PRIORITY AND WE HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT CAN DO THIS.  WE CERTAINLY WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THE EDUCATIONAL PORTION OF THIS AND WE TEACH FOOD SAFETY CLASSES AND BRING FOOD OPERATORS IN AND TEACH THEM THE SAFE HANDLING OF FOODS.  WE’RE NOT TALKING SO MUCH ABOUT THE NUTRITIONAL VALUE OF FOOD.  THAT’S JUDYS SPECIALTY.  WE’RE TALKING ABOUT PROPER HANDLING OF THE FOODS.  YOU DON’T CUT UP CHICKEN ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AND THEN START CUTTING UP YOUR BEEF ON THAT SAME CHOPPING BLOCK.

 

MARY: LET’S PLAY THE DEVILS ADVOCATE HERE.  IF IT’S THE CASE THAT MORE PEOPLE DIE OF HEART DISEASE THAN GERMS ON CHOPPING BLOCKS, WOULDN’T OUR PUBLIC MONEY BE SPENT BETTER TRYING TO PREVENT HEART DISEASE?

 

KEITH: WELL, YOU KNOW WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CANCERS AND HEART DISEASE AND STROKES, THESE ARE THE CAUSES OF DEATH BUT WHETHER THE DETERMINATES OF DEATH AND YOU KNOW IT’S LACK OF EXERCISE, IT’S IMPROPER DIET, SMOKING AND THESE DETERMINATES OF HEALTH WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IF WE WANT TO ATTACK, REDUCE HEART ATTACKS HEART DISEASE AND OTHER ILLNESSES, CHRONIC DIABETES, HUGE, HUGE PROBLEM AND IT’S GETTING WORSE AND YES, WE’VE GOT TO LOOK AT EATING PROPERLY BUT THIS HAS TO GO ALONG WITH EXERCISE AND YOU KNOW WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER ABOUT WATCHING TV AND PLAYING THE COMPUTER AND NOT GETTING OUTDOORS AND YOU KNOW THIS IS ALL A PART OF THE PROBLEM.

 

JUDY: WELL I MIGHT THROW IN HERE IN DEFENSE OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH TOO IS IF THEY WEREN’T DOING THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE DOING, IN TERMS OF FOOD SAFETY AND MONITORING THE WATER SYSTEM AND ALL OF THAT, WE MIGHT HAVE A HECK OF A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD DIE.  WE SORT OF FORGET ABOUT THE ROLE OF PUBLIC HEALTH.  WHAT WOULD BE THE NUMBERS BEFORE WHAT 1930

 

KEITH: THEY SAY THAT, IT’S ALMOST DOUBLED LIFE EXPECTANCE IN THIS CENTURY AND PROBABLY 80% OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF

 

JUDY: SANITATION, WE FORGET THAT WE HAVE SEWER SYSTEMS AND WE HAVE CLEAN WATER AND WE HAVE GARBAGE DISPOSALS AND ALL THESE THINGS AND IT’S EASY TO FORGET WHERE WE’VE COME

 

KEITH: YOU DON’T HEAR ANYTHING WHEN WE’RE DOING A GOOD JOB AND YOU NEED AN OUTBREAK BEFORE PEOPLE APPRECIATE WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO DO BUT WE DON’T WANT TO HAVE THOSE OUTBREAKS.  YOU KNOW WE’RE SEEN RESTAURANTS GO COMPLETELY OUT OF BUSINESS ON ONE FOOD OUTBREAK.  ONE FOOD OUTBREAK CAN RUIN A VIABLE RESTAURANT BUSINESS.

 

MARY: JOHN WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT LEGISLATION LIKE THIS.  WHAT KIND OF DIFFICULTIES DOES THIS PRESENT FOR RESTAURANT OWNERS OR OPPORTUNITIES MAYBE?

 

JOHN: WELL, FIRST OF ALL I HAVE TO AGREE WITH KEITH THAT IT’S MORE OF AN EDUCATION DEAL THAN A NEED TO BE LEGISLATED.  IF THE PUBLIC KNEW WHAT THEY WERE INGESTING AND WHAT IT DID TO THEM AND WERE TO TAKE IT IN OR NOT TO TAKE IT IN AND TO TALK TO WHERE THEY GO TO EAT AND SAY HEY, WE WANT TO EAT THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER THING AND NOT THIS, THE RESTAURANTEUR, A SMART RESTAURANTEUR IS GOING TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR GUEST BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE TO DO.   LIKE KEITH SAID WITH SMOKING, LIKE 80% OF THE RESTAURANTS IN IOWA HAVE ALREADY GONE NON SMOKING WITHOUT HAVING A BAN EVEN THOUGH THERE’S PEOPLE STILL OUT THERE FIGHTING FOR IT.  WE DON’T NEED IT, IT’S TAKEN CARE OF ITSELF OK.  I THINK THAT THE SAME THING CAN HAPPEN WITH THIS SITUATION ALSO.  WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION AND WITH THE COMMUNICATION IT’LL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.

 

MARY: NOW I’M GOING TO PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE TOO HERE BECAUSE WE PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION THAN WE EVER HAVE BEFORE.  I ALSO REMEMBER WHEN THERE WERE NO NUTRITION LABELS ON FOOD REMEMBER WHEN YOU DIDN’T AND I REMEMBER WHEN THAT HAPPENED, WHEN STUFF YOU BOUGHT AT THE GROCERY STORE HAD TO HAVE THE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION ON IT.  SO, WE PROBABLY KNOW MORE THAN WE EVER DID BEFORE YET WE’RE GETTING MORE AND MORE OBESE, MYSELF INCLUDED.  MORE, HIGHER AMOUNTS OF HEART DISEASE AND DIABETES AND SO ON SO I’M NOT SURE THAN EDUCATION IS WORKING.  WE KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD DO BUT WE DON’T DO IT AND I’M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF TOO.

 

JUDY: WELL IT’S SUCH A COMPLEX RULE.  AS A DIETICIAN OF COURSE I’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 30 YEARS AND IT’S BEEN REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE INFORMATION HAS EVOLVED SO IT’S THERE IN THE STORE, THE COMPLEX AREA WE HAVE IS WHEN WE GO TO A RESTAURANT, WE DON’T KNOW WHAT’S THERE UNLESS YOU’RE REALLY EDUCATED AND SO FOR IT USED TO BE PEOPLE DIDN’T EAT OUT NEARLY AS OFTEN AS THEY DO NOW SO IT’S ALWAYS EXPOSURE AND FREQUENCY AND DURATION KIND OF THING AND WE KIND OF OUR FOOD SUPPLY, WHAT IS IS HALF, HALF OF THE AMERICAN FOOD DOLLAR IS SPENT EATING OUT NOW?  OR MORE?

 

JOHN: IT’S ALMOST 60% AND THEY SAY BY THE YEAR 2017 IT’S GOING TO BE UP TO POSSIBLY 70%.

 

JUDY: AND SOMEBODY ELSE IS COOKING THE FOOD THEY BRING HOME SO THERE IS A CHALLENGE THERE AND I LIKE PEOPLE TO BE EDUCATED I KNOW IT’S HARD TO BE EDUCATED, IT’S A TOUGH.

 

KEITH: I THINK THERE’S A COST FACTOR TOO.  THE VERY BEST NUTRITIONAL FOODS TEND TO COST MORE, YOU CAN GO BUY A BAG OF POTATO CHIPS AND PEOPLE GO FOR THAT RATHER THAN MAKING A SALAD YOU KNOW.

 

AND WHY IS THAT?

 

KEITH: WELL CONVENIENCE IS ONE OF THE THINGS.

 

MARY: NO I MEAN WHY DOES HEALTHY FOOD COST MORE?

 

JUDY: BECAUSE IT DOESN’T HAVE CORN SYRUP AND CHEAP OILS AND CHEAP FLOUR IN IT.  IT’S ALMOST, SOMETIMES I THINK IN THE UNITED STATES OUR EXPECTATION OF WHAT A FOOD OUGHT TO COST IS OUT OF KILTER WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OTHER COUNTRIES.  THE COST OF HEALTHY FOODS IS ACTUALLY LOWER THAN IT IS IN MANY OTHER PLACES BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY VERY INEXPENSIVE FOODS AVAILABLE IT CHANGES THE PERSPECTIVE AND THE FACT THAT YOU COULD WALK INTO HY VEE TONIGHT AND BUY, I THINK 79 CENT IF NOT 99 CENT A POUND ORANGES, THAT’S CHEAP PRODUCE.  THAT’S 50 CENTS APIECE FOR A NICE ORANGE AND I DON’T THINK THAT’S EXORBITANTLY EXPENSIVE.

 

KEITH: BUT PEOPLE DON’T WANT TO PEEL THEM. 

 

JUDY: I WORRY ABOUT THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF FOOD.  THE FACT THAT SO MUCH OF THE FOOD DOLLAR IS GOING FOR OTHER PEOPLE COOKING AND PREPARING FOOD, FOLKS JUST DON’T HAVE A CLUE OF WHAT GOES INTO FOOD.  I’LL BET WE COULD FIND PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW THAT THE PIZZA SAUCE HAS TOMATOES IN IT.  OR THAT MAYBE EVEN A FRENCH FRY IS A POTATO.  IT’S THE THING WITH THAT BROWN COVERING ON IT THAT SORT OF FEELS WEIRD.  I REALLY DO THINK WE’RE GETTING A LOT OF FOOD IGNORANCE AND OF COURSE US DIETICIANS ARE TOTALLY FRUSTRATED AND WE’RE TRYING TO TEACH PEOPLE SO THAT’S WHY I LIKE COOKING CLASSES IS GETTING DOING THINGS WITH KIDS TO SAY YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE’RE GOING TO MAKE SOME FRENCH FRIES SO YOU KNOW WHERE IT COMES FROM.

 

MARY: A STUDENT YEARS AGO WHO GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE AND WAS FRUSTRATED BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WHO GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE SHOULD HAVE A JOB WITH ENOUGH MONEY THAT THEY COULD EAT OUT ALL THE TIME.  I REMEMBER THINKING WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?  WELL I GUESS I CAN’T CONVINCE ANYBODY THAT THIS LAW IS A GOOD IDEA BUT UNFORTUNATELY WHAT DO YOU THINK A GOOD ALTERNATIVE MIGHT BE?  I REALLY, EDUCATION SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT ANSWER EXCEPT IT’S NOT WORKING.

 

JUDY: WELL IT IS AND IT ISN’T YOU KNOW THE FACT THAT I SAY THAT MY CHINESE MANAGER WAS GIVEN THE OPTION OF AND AS I’VE SAID WE IDENTIFIED THIS SOY OIL WE THINK WILL WORK, YOU CAN KEEP USING THE OTHER STUFF OR YOU CAN MOVE TO THIS ONE, HE’S USING THE SOY OIL.  SO THAT’S A HUGE EDUCATION, A SUBTLE EDUCATION, I’D SAY 80% OF OUR CUSTOMERS DON’T CARE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THEY’RE IN THERE FOR THAT QUICK CHINESE, GET IN AND GET OUT AND IT’S SWEET AND TASTY AND IT’S CHEAP AND LOOKS GOOD BUT JIM MADE THE DECISION.

 

JOHN:  AND TO EXPAND ON THAT YOU KNOW I KNOW OF 12 TO 15 TRANS FAT OILS ON THE MARKET TODAY THAT A RESTAURANTEUR CAN GO OUT AND BUY OR USE IN THEIR RESTAURANT OR HY VEE IN THEIR DELI MARKET.  YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT, THEY’VE GOT SECTIONS OF THEIR MENU THAT HAVE GOT SMALLER PORTIONS.

 

MARY: OR I’VE SEEN LITTLE HEART SYMBOLS

 

JOHN: HEART SYMBOLS AND YOU’VE GOT THE LIGHTER SIDES.  IT’S COMING BUT IT’S GOING TO TAKE TIME.  IT’S GOING TO TAKE EDUCATION, IT’S AN EVOLVING PROCESS.  YOU KNOW IT DOESN’T HAVE TO A BAN OR A SLAM DUNK.

 

KEITH: THE OTHER THING TOO WHENEVER YOU BAN SOMETHING THAT GIVES IT A DESIRABILITY THAT OVERTLY YOU MIGHT TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM BUT NOW YOU KNOW THE BLACK MARKET KICKS IN YOU KNOW LIKE WITH ALCOHOL AND PROHIBITION AND HOW SUCCESSFUL THAT WAS AND THE SEX INDUSTRY YOU KNOW YOU BAN SOMETHING YOU MAKE THAT DESIRABLE AND OFTENTIMES COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

 

MARY: I CAN SEE THAT BUT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW DENMARK AS A COUNTRY BANNED TRANS FAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND THEY HAVE SEEN A 20% REDUCTION IN CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE SINCE THEN.

 

JUDY: AND SCANDINAVIANS HAVE A VERY HIGH PROPENSITY FOR HEART DISEASE SO YOU KNOW OF COURSE WE’VE GOT LOTS OF THAT KIND OF BLOOD IN HERE TOO SO THEY HAD MAYBE WERE KIND OF PUSHING THE EDGE THERE.

 

MARY: AND IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A CAUSAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THAT BAN BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS.

 

JUDY: MAYBE EATING A LOT LESS CHEESE NOW TOO.  THAT WILL DO IT.

 

MARY: SO IT’S HARD TO SAY CAUSE AND EFFECT ALTHOUGH THEY THINK THAT THE BAN HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS.

 

JUDY: HEY, REGULATING SOMETHING LIKE LABELING SO THAT THE INFORMATION IS THERE IN A CONSISTENT WAY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE A DECISION IS GOOD. 

 

MARY: DO YOU THINK RESTAURANTS SHOULD HAVE TO LABEL THEIR ON THEIR MENU?

 

JUDY: IT DEPENDS ON THE RESTAURANT.  YOU HAVE PROBABLY IF YOU’RE DOING A GOOD RESTAURANT YOU’VE GOT SET RECIPES BUT YOUR PEOPLE MAY NOT ALWAYS FOLLOW THEM AND SO THAT’S WHY IT’S HARD.  SOMEBODY LIKE MCDONALDS WHERE THEY HAVE IT, IT COMES IN A PACKAGE AND YOU PULL IT OUT AND NO ONE ACTUALLY FIXES IT, YOU’VE GOT MORE CONSISTENCY SO AGAIN THERE’S A PRACTICAL ISSUE THERE.

 

MARY: AND I KNOW WE’VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT IT’S EXPENSIVE FOR RESTAURANTS TO HIRE SCIENTISTS TO MEASURE, AND THAT’S MAYBE SOMETHING THAT GOVERNMENTS COULD HELP OUT.

 

KEITH: YOU’RE SEEING

MARY: WE’VE GOT 30 SECONDS.

 

KEITH: YOU SEE MENUS WHERE THEY HAVE HEALTHY CHOICE SECTIONS AND THIS IS VERY GOOD JUST LIKE IN THE GROCERY STORE THEY HAVE NOW AISLES WHICH HAVE HEALTHY CHOICE FOODS AND THIS IS HUGE.

 

MARY: WELL THERE’S A LOT TO THINK ABOUT HERE AND TO LEARN.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE’LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.