CHARLOTTE: GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES OF THE NEWS:  MY NAME IS CHARLOTTE FALLON.  MOST OF US ARE CURRENTLY AWARE THAT OIL IS ABOUT OVER $100 A BARREL AND GASOLINE IS ABOUT $3.20 A GALLON.   WITH THESE PRICES THE NEED FOR OTHER ENERGY FORMS HAS GAINED GREATER AND GREATER URGENCY.  ONE ALTERNATIVE IS REFERRED TO AS CLEAN COAL.  MANY UNIVERSITIES AND PRIVATE INDUSTRIES ARE TRYING TO ADJUST THE COAL BURNING PROCESS TO ELIMINATE TOXIC EMISSIONS.  THE GE GLOBAL RESEARCH WEB SITE ONE OF THOSE TRYING TO DO THIS REPORTS THAT SOME OF THE BY-PRODUCTS OF COAL WHEN BURNED FOR ENERGY ARE AND I’M QUOTING THE WEBSITE: “NITROGEN OXIDES, SULFUR OXIDES, MERCURY, CARBON DIOXIDE, FINE PARTICLES AND OTHER AIR POLLUTANTS” SO THE QUESTION REMAINS CAN COAL BE CLEAN OR IS THE TERM AN OXYMORON?  ALSO, WHAT SHOULD BE THE BASE OF FUTURE COAL BURNING PLANTS IN IOWA?  IN GENERAL HOW CAN ENERGY BE MORE EFFICIENTLY USED AND CREATED IN OUR STATE? WITH ME TO DISCUSS THIS AND OTHER ISSUES SURROUNDING COAL AND ENERGY ARE MARK KRESOWIK OF THE SIERRA CLUB, STEPHEN GATES, AMERICANS FOR BALANCED ENERGY AND TERESA GALLUZZO OF THE IOWA POLICY PROJECT.  GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO YOU ALL. 

 

ALL: GOOD MORNING

 

I’LL BEGIN BY ASKING MARK THE POSITION OF THE SIERRA CLUB ABOUT CLEAN COAL.

 

MARK:  LET ME ACTUALLY START IN MY ROLE ALSO AS ACTING DIRECTOR OF IOWA INTERSTATE POWER AND LIGHT AND REFERENCE OF THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE INTER-RELIGIOUS COUNCIL LINN COUNTY AND THE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE INTER-RELIGIOUS COUNCIL LINN COUNTY WHO HAVE BOTH WRITTEN TO THE GOVERNOR IN OPPOSITION TO THESE PROPOSED COAL PLANTS HERE IN THE STATE OF IOWA.  AS YOU DESCRIBE COAL, CLEAN COAL IS AN OXYMORON IN FACT IT IS THE SINGLE LARGEST SOURCE OF GLOBAL WARMING POLLUTION CERTAINLY ONE OF THE LARGEST SOURCES OF MERCURY POLLUTION WHICH IS INCREDIBLY DAMAGING TO THE NEUROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT OF UNBORN CHILDREN. IN FACT, ONE OF SIX WOMEN OF CHILD BEARING AGE IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY HAVE ENOUGH MERCURY IN THEIR SYSTEM TO POTENTIALLY NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE NEUROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT OF AN UNBORN CHILD.  AND IN THE CURRENT DEVELOPMENTS, THE LEADING SCIENTISTS WHO ARE RESEARCHING THE ABILITY TO CAPTURE SOME OF THESE POLLUTANTS FROM COAL PLANTS SAY THAT THE TECHNOLOGY TO CAPTURE CARBON DIOXIDE IN PARTICULAR IS AT LEAST FIFTEEN TO TWENTY YEARS OFF FROM BEING COMMERCIALLY VIABLE AND WILL SERIOUSLY IMPACT THE RATES THAT WE PAY FOR ELECTRICITY RAISING THEM PRETTY DRAMATICALLY.  WE HAVE ALTERNATIVES HERE IN THE STATE OF IOWA THAT ARE ABUNDANT BETTER FOR OUR ECONOMY LIKE EFFICIENCY AND RENEWBLE ENERGY WHICH I’M SURE TERESA WILL TALK ABOUT AND THE PLANTS THAT ARE PROPOSED CURRENTLY IN THE STATE OF IOWA IN MARSHALLTOWN AND WATERLOO ARE NOT AT ALL CLEAN COAL PLANTS THEY HAVE NO REAL ABILITY TO CAPTURE AND SEQUESTER CARBON DIOXIDE AND AS THE LEADING RESEARCHERS SAY THERE IS NO ECONOMIC JUSTIFICATION FROM MIT THE LEADING RESEARCH CENTER THERE’S NO ECONOMIC JUSTIFICATION TO EXPECT THAT PLANTS BUILT TODAY WITHOUT THE TECHNOLOGY TO CAPTURE AND SEQUESTER CARBON WILL EVER BE ABLE TO DO SO. 

 

CHARLOTTE: SO I GUESS THE ANSWER IS THAT THE SIERRA CLUB DOESN’T THINK THIS IS VIABLE

 

MARK: NOT AT THIS TIME CERTAINLY AND AGAIN WE HAVE OTHER ALTERNATIVES…

 

CHARLOTTE: OKAY.   STEPHEN, WHAT WOULD YOUR ORGANIZATION SAY ABOUT CLEAN COAL ENERGY?

 

STEPHEN:  WELL, WE WOULD SAY A LOT OF THINGS. FIRST OF ALL IT IS A POSSIBILITY COAL IS CLEANER TODAY THAN IT’S BEEN OVER THE LAST THIRTY YEARS.  REGULATED EMISSIONS HAVE COME DOWN SEVENTY PERCENT WHILE THE USE OF COAL HAS MORE THAN DOUBLED.  BUT WE’RE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN TECHNOLOGY.  WE ALSO FEEL THAT WE NEED ALL SOURCES OF ELECTRICITY PRODUCTION IN THIS COUNTRY WHETHER IT BE SOLAR, WIND, NUCLEAR, GEOTHERMAL.  COAL NEEDS TO BE A PART OF THAT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS IN THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE MORE COAL HERE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.  FIFTY PERCENT OF THIS COUNTRY’S ELECTRICITY CURRENTLY COMES FROM COAL, SEVENTY-EIGHT PERCENT IN IOWA IS GENERATED BY COAL THE ELECTRICITY…..

 

CHARLOTTE: IS THAT NUMBER GOING UP OR DOWN?

 

STEPHEN:  THE NUMBER IS GOING UP AND PROJECTED TO GO UP EVEN MORE.  WHAT OUR ORGANIZATION BELIEVES THAT ITS NOT A MATTER OF IF WE’RE GOING TO USE COAL IN THIS COUNTRY WE USE IT AND WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO USE IT FOR A LONG TIME ITS HOW WE’RE GOING TO USE IT AND THROUGH CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGIES THE OXYMORON OF CLEAN COAL SOMETIMES PEOPLE DROP OFF THE LAST WORD WHICH IS TECHNOLOGY.  TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO ABLE TO DO THINGS LIKE DROP EMISSIONS AS THE INDUSTRY’S DONE ALREADY OVER THE LAST TWENTY YEARS  BUT AGAIN TO BE ABLE TO CAPTURE AND SEQUESTER SAFELY CO2 TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN ABUNDANT FUEL SOURCE THAT KEEPS THE RATES LOW, KEEPS WORKING FAMILIES FROM HAVING TO PAY EXORBITANT FEES WHEN IT COMES TO JUST THEIR DAILY ROUTINES WITH THE COUNTRY IN RECESSION OR AT LEAST NEARING TOWARDS RECESSION EVEN A LITTLE BIT FOR PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOMES AND WORKING FAMILIES IT REALLY TAKES A BITE OUT OF THEIR POCKET SO WE BELIEVE WE NEED ALL FUEL SOURCES IN THIS COUNTRY CERTAINLY IN THIS COUNTRY AND GLOBALLY AND COAL NEEDS TO BE PART OF IT AS WELL. 

 

CHARLOTTE:  OKAY.  TERESA TELL US ABOUT YOUR ORGANIZATION WE COULD TALK SOME MORE OF THESE OTHER ISSUES IN A MOMENT.  THE IOWA POLICY PROJECT.

 

TERESA:  I WORK FOR IOWA POLICY PROJECT – IT IS A NON-PROFIT THAT DOES RESEARCH ON STATE POLICY ISSUES WE WORK TO INFORM IOWANS ABOUT CURRENT POLICIES SO THAT THEY CAN BE INVOLVED IN MAKING OUR STATE’S DECISIONS ABOUT OUR STATE’S FUTURE AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD THAT

ACTUALLY IN IOWA SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF OUR POWER COMES FROM COAL CURRENTLY AND THAT PERCENTAGE HAS DECLINED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IT USED TO BE UP NEAR EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT, BUT WE’VE HAD A BIG GROWTH IN RENEWBLE POWER AND WHICH IS NOW FIVE PERCENT OF OUR POWER GENERATION SOURCE SO WE ARE SEEING A DIVERSIFICATION IN OUR POWER MIXES AND IN PARTICULAR SEEING A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY COMING FROM RENEWBLE ENERGY WHICH IS ONE OF THE AREAS THAT THE IOWA POLICY PROJECT WORKS IN WE LOOK AT ENERGY AND WE OFTEN TIE THAT WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE STATE AND WE’VE BEEN TALKING A LOT RECENTLY ABOUT ENERGY EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES IN THE STATE.

 

CHARLOTTE: SO YOU’RE DEALING MORE WITH EFFICIENCIES THAN COAL IN PARTICULAR? 

 

TERESA: RIGHT. 

 

CHARLOTTE: BUT AT OVER SEVENTY PERCENT I MEAN THAT’S A HUGE AMOUNT OF ENERGY

 

MARK:  ITS ACTUALLY A SERIOUS PROBLEM A WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RISING COST OF POWER FROM NEW COAL FIRE POWER PLANTS FOR INSTANCE THE LEADING THE LARGEST INVESTOR UTILITY IN THE COUNTRY, DUKE ENERGY, THE CEO HAS SAID IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THE CAPITAL COSTS OF A NEW COAL PLANT HAS DOUBLED AND SINCE IOWA IS SO INCREDIBLY DEPENDANT ON COAL WE ACTUALLY FACE THE MOST RISK OF RISING ELECTRICAL COSTS.  AS TERESA TALKED ABOUT ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND STEVE DELUDED TO THE FACT OF PEOPLE ON LOW AND FIXED INCOMES THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE CAN DO AS WE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY ON THIS PROGRAM FROM A FAITH PERSPECTIVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE LEAST AMONG US BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND TO ACTUALLY INVEST IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY TO REDUCE THEIR COSTS WHICH CAN BE DONE AT A FAR LOWER COST THAN BUILDING NEW COAL PLANTS REDUCES OUR DEPENDENCE ON COAL AND AS STEVE SAID THEY’RE HERE TO PROMOTE COAL THAT’S WHAT THEY DO AND ITS USE IN OUR ELECTRIC SYSTEM WE DON’T NEED IT WE CAN MOVE AWAY IN IOWA AND REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCE AS TERESA DESCRIBED THROUGH EFFICIENCY RENEWBLES AND DO SO AT A LOWER COST THAN BUILDING NEW COAL PLANTS AND CREATE THOUSANDS OF NEW GREEN COLLAR JOBS IN THE STATE OF IOWA.  JOBS LIKE MORE THAN FIFTEEN HUNDRED JOBS IN WIND TURBINE MANUFACTURING INCLUDING ANOTHER HUNDRED THAT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED IN OELWEIN HERE IN THIS STATE.  SO VERY EXTENDING STUFF HAPPENING ON THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN EFFICIENCY RENEWBLES THAT ARE BACKING OUR COAL AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO THAT WITH EFFICIENCY RENEWBLES.

 

CHARLOTTE: WHAT IS THE TIME FRAME OF THIS I MEAN WE CAN’T DO THIS TOMORROW.

 

STEPHEN:  AT ONE POINT IT WAS JUST ABOUT AFFORDABILITY RECENTLY LONG ISLAND HAD A PROPOSED WIND LINE THAT WAS GOING TO GO UP THE COAST AND IT WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED TO BE $200 MILLION DOLLAR PROJECT IT GOT SCRAPPED BECAUSE THE COST OF WIND ENERGY FOR THAT PROJECT ALONE WENT UP TO $800 MILLION SO THE COST OF EVERYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY IS GOING UP WHETHER BE LAST YEAR THE COST OF ELECTRICITY FROM WIND TURBINES WENT UP SEVENTEEN PERCENT THIS YEAR ITS PROJECTED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY TO GO UP ANOTHER FOURTEEN PERCENT SO THERE’S NO FORM OF ELECTRICITY THAT’S NOT GOING UP.

 

CHARLOTTE: WHY IS WIND GOING UP LIKE THAT?

 

STEPHEN:  THE COST OF DOING ANYTHING OF BUILDING A NEW HOME BUILDING A WIND TURBINE BUILDING WHATEVER IT IS YOU ARE BUILDING THOSE PRODUCTS ARE JUST AS ANY OF YOUR VIEWERS WILL KNOW THE PRICE OF MILK AND BREAD ALONE AND GASOLINE THE PRICE OF DOING ANYTHING A NEW HOME THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS ARE JUST GOING THROUGH THE ROOF ON EVERYTHING SO HISTORICALLY COAL IS A LOW COST OPTION AND IT STILL IS BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT THESE WIND PROJECTS THAT ARE GETTING SCRAPPED BECAUSE THEIR PRICES ARE TOO HIGH THE REALITY IS THAT WE USE A LOT OF ELECTRICITY IN THIS COUNTRY WE HAVE MORE THAN THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE WE HAVE MORE DEVICES THAN EVER BEFORE WE ALL TURNED OUR CELL PHONES OFF BEFORE WE GOT HERE.  I’M ON MY WAY TO THE AIRPORT I HAVE A BAG THAT HAS SIX THINGS THAT NEED TO BE PLUGGED IN WHEN I GET TO MY HOTEL ROOM TONIGHT.  MY GRANDMOTHER THIRTY YEARS AGO HAD A HOME THAT HAD SIX THINGS THAT WERE PLUGGED IN EVER AND WHEN THEY WERE DONE THEY WERE IMMEDIATELY UNPLUGGED SO WE’RE JUST CONSUMING MORE ELECTRICITY WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE.  RIGHT NOW WE’RE USING FOUR HUNDRED TERRIFYING TERAWATT POWERS ANNUALLY I’M NOT EXACTLY SURE….

MARK: I DON’T KNOW WHAT A TERAWATT IS.  IS THAT A LOT?

LAUGHTER

STEPHEN: A TERAWATT OR THERE IS FOUR THOUSAND TERAWATT HOURS.  A COUNTRY LIKE GERMANY IS USING SIX HUNDRED IT’S PROJECTED TO GO BY AT LEAST ANOTHER TWENTY-SEVEN HUNDRED TO THIRTY-TWO HUNDRED BY 2030 WHICH IS CONSUMING A LOT AND EVEN THROUGH EFFICIENCY WHICH IS A GREAT IDEA I’VE MADE MY HOME, MY FAMILY’S HOME AS EFFICIENT AS IT CAN BE.  WE JUST HAVE MORE PEOPLE USING MORE THINGS.  ELECTRICITY IS SOMETHING THAT WE USE IN OUR DAILY LIVES. .IN THIS STUDIO ALONE THERE IS ENOUGH LIGHTS TO GIVE US ALL A NICE TAN WHEN WE’RE DONE HERE.

 

MARK  THIS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF WHAT STEVE SAID IN THAT COAL IS CHEAPER IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE THE EXPERTS IN THE STATE OF IOWA MOST NOTABLY THOSE REPRESENTING THE IOWA OFFICE OF THE CONSUMER ADVOCATE WHICH IS A STATE ORGANIZATION WHOSE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY IS TO PROTECT CONSUMERS RESIDENTIAL AND BUSINESSES FROM PAYING TOO MUCH FOR ELECTRICITY AND FOR REPRESENTING OUR INTERESTS AND THEY CONCLUDED THAT IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWBLE ENERGY WERE ACTUALLY A CHEAPER WAY TO MEET ENERGY GROWING ENERGY DEMANDS IN THE STATE OF IOWA THAN NEW COAL PLANTS. AND THOSE AGAIN THEIR SOLE INTEREST IS REPRESENTING US THE RATE PAYERS AND CONSUMERS IN THE STATE OF IOWA AND AGAIN THEIR CONCLUSION COAL PLANTS WERE NOT THE CHEAPEST WAY TO GO FOR BUSINESSES OR FOR RESIDENTIAL RATE PAYERS SO IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT BUILD THESE COAL PLANTS.  AGAIN IN FAIR VIEW THE LONG TERM ARGUMENTS IS EFFICIENCY RENEWBLES ARE ABUNDANTLY AVAILABLE THEY CREATE MORE JOBS FOR THE STATE OF IOWA FAR MORE JOBS YOU’RE TALKING ON A SCALE OF 3 OR 4 TO ONE WHICH I THINK THAT TERESA CAN ATTEST TO.  THAT IS THE SITUATION WE’RE FACING RIGHT NOW

 

CHARLOTTE: SO MY QUESTION IS IF THE GERMANS CAN USE SO MUCH LESS THAN WE DO SHOULDN’T THIS BE OUR EMPHASIS, TERESA?  TO JUST USE LESS YOU KNOW RATHER THAN FINDING WAYS TO MAKE IT CHEAPER.

 

TERESA:  AS A STATE THAT DOES HAVE A HIGH ELECTRICITY CONSUMPTION PER CAPITA WE DO HAVE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO MEET DEMAND THROUGH ENERGY EFFICIENCY.  A WE HAVE OUR STATE IS A LEADER IN SPENDING IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY BUT WE’RE NOT NECESSARILY SPENDING THOSE DOLLARS IN THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY POSSIBLE.  IOWA STILL HAS A HUGE AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL TO INCREASE ITS ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND REDUCE THAT CONSUMPTION IN THIS STATE.  FOR EXAMPLE, THE STATE PROVIDES.. THE RURAL ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES THAT PROVIDE POWER IN THIS STATE ONLY LESS THAN HALF OF THEM ONLY 15 PROVIDE REBATES FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY LIGHTING THAT’S ONE OF THE EASIEST WAYS TO SAVE ELECTRICITY AND SAVE IOWAN’S DOLLARS SO THERE’S JUST AS I SAID BEFORE A HUGE AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL FOR IOWA TO BE A LEADER IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND MEET SOME OF THAT DEMAND.

 

CHARLOTTE:  EXCUSE ME.  WHAT DOES COAL DO WITH REGARD AND I DON’T KNOW WHY I’M ASKING WITH REGARD TO THE USE OF WATER FOR INSTANCE WHICH IS SORT OF THE LATEST COMMODITY.

 

STEPHEN: SPECIFICALLY HOW MUCH IT USES A GREAT DEAL OF WATER I CAN’T QUANIFY EXACTLY HOW MUCH, IT CERTAINLY DOES USE WATER.  YOU KNOW

MUCH LIKE ANY PROCESS NUCLEAR USES WATER YOU’RE USING THE LAND IF YOU’RE BUILDING IF YOUR AT LEAST PLANNING SOME THINGS FOR ETHANOL, BUT TO GET BACK TO THE POINT ABOUT IOWA AND ITS COSTS.  YOU KNOW GOVERNOR AND I’M NOT AN IOWA EXPERT THE PEOPLE AROUND HERE ARE SO YOU’LL FORGIVE ME IF I MISSTEP A LITTLE BIT.  GOVERNOR CULVER HAS SAID THAT HE WANTS IOWA TO BE THE SILICON VALLEY OF THE MIDWEST AND COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE ARE NOW IN COUNCIL BLUFFS FOR THEIR ABILITY TO GET CHEAP AT LEAST AFFORDABLE ELECTRICITY TO RUN THEIR MASSIVE SERVERS THAT’S WHY THEY’RE COMING TO THIS STATE.  MICROSOFT HAS AN INTEREST IN COMING HERE.  AGAIN, COMPANIES ARE COMING HERE BECAUSE THEY CAN BE COMPETITIVE IN THE MARKET BECAUSE OF THE LOW RATES THAT IOWANS NOW CURRENTLY ENJOY BECAUSE THE NUMBER MIGHT HAVE COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT BUT 80 PERCENT OF THE ELECTRICITY IS GENERATED FROM COAL AND THAT’S KEEPING RATES LOW AND THAT’S ATTRACTING BUSINESSES INTO THE STATE AND MAKING SURE THE TAX BASE STAYS IN CHECK AND ITS DOING GREAT THINGS FOR THE STATE SO WHILE JOBS ARE CREATED GREEN COLLAR JOBS REAL JOBS STAY HERE AND ADDITIONAL ONES ARE CREATED AT LEAST IN COUNCIL BLUFFS THROUGH GOOGLE BECAUSE THE COMPANY CAME IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE OF THE RATES.

 

CHARLOTTE: WHAT DOES SIERRA CLUB POLICY…….?

 

MARK:  WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IS TRUE I MEAN COMPANIES THAT USE A LOT OF ENERGY NEED LOW-COST RELIABLE POWER AND THAT’S EXACTLY THE POINT THAT THE IOWA OFFICE OF CONSUMER ADVOCATE IS MAKING BY SAYING THAT THE CHEAPEST WAY TO MEET FUTURE POWER DEMANDS IS NOT WITH THE COAL PLANT THAT’S A FAR MORE EXPENSIVE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT THEN WITH EFFECIENCY RENEWBLES.  IF WE WANT TO ATTRACT A GOOGLE, IF WE WANT TO ATTRACT A MICROSOFT,  ONE OF THE MANY COMPONENTS IS ALSO QUALITY OF LIFE, BUT THE CHEAPER WAY TO MAINTAIN THOSE LOW-COST RELIABLE RATES IS NOT TO STICK WITH OUR BOOMER DEPENDENCE ON COAL ITS TO MOVE AWAY FROM IT.   AND WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO TAKE CARE OF THIS EARTH TO CARE FOR CREATION TO REDUCE OUR GLOBAL WARMING  POLLUTION AND ALSO TO A REDUCE THE IMPACTS OF THINGS LIKE MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL MINING.  I WAS JUST IN VIRGINIA TWO WEEKS AGO AND GOT TO WITNESS FIRST HAND THE DEVASTATING IMPACTS ON COMMUNITIES, ON WATER QUALITY ON THE BEAUTY OF THE LAND OF THE MOST DIVERSE AND ABUNDANT ECOLOGICAL LANDSCAPE IN THE APPALACHIAN REGION WHERE WE’RE LITERALLY BLOWING THE TOPS OFF MOUNTAINS.  AND ITS DEVASTATING TO WATCH AS YOU WIND IN THE VALLEYS AND SUDDENLY COME UP ON THIS RISE AND JUST LOOK OUT WHERE THERE USED TO BE GREEN ROLLING HILLS IS SIMPLY DESTROYED AND BROWN AND MINED OUT. AND THAT’S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO STOP THIS COAL MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL COAL MINING TO REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCE ON COAL TO REDUCE OUR IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND TAKE CARE OF IT AS WE’RE CHARGED TO SERVE AND PROTECT THE GARDEN AND SO WE MUST MOVE AWAY FROM COAL BOTH TO ATTRACT BUSINESSES LIKE GOOGLE AND MICROSOFT BECAUSE AGAIN EFFICIENCY RENEWBLE ENERGY IS CHEAPER AND PROTECT THOSE IN OUR COMMUNITIES WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO PAY THEIR ENERGY BILLS AS YOU DESCRIBED.  THE HUNDRED DOLLAR PLUS OIL BILLS AND THE RISING COST OF COAL WHICH IS PROJECTED TO BE ACTUALLY MORE VOLATILE THAN NATURAL GAS IN THE COMING YEARS.  IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE MOVE FORWARD ON OUR ENERGY EFFICIENT RENEWBLE ENERGY TO CREATE THOSE GREEN COLLAR JOBS AND PROTECT THE EARTH WE LOVE SO MUCH.

 

CHARLOTTE: SO DO WE JUST NEED TO PAY MORE FOR THIS?  IS IT LIKE THIS THAT WE HAVE HAD CHEAP GASOLINE FOR SO LONG SO WE NEVER DEVELOPED CARS THAT WERE EFFICIENT AND NOW THAT WE HAVE TO PAY WHATEVER WE HAVE TO PAY.  OH, LET’S GET SOME EFFICIENT ENGINES HERE.

 

MARK: COST IS A PART OF IT A BASE LOW* GENERATION IS ANOTHER THING AND FORGIVE ME I DID BRING A CHEAT SHEET BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET THIS QUOTE RIGHT AND THIS IS FROM PATRICK….

 

CHARLOTTE: YOU’LL HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT THAT IS.

 

MARK: OKAY THIS IS A QUOTE FROM PATRICK MOORE THE CO-FOUNDER AND FORMER LEADER OF GREENPEACE WHO WROTE ON DECEMBER 10 IN AN ARTICLE GREENPEACE IS DELIBERATELY MISLEADING THE PUBLIC IN TO THINKING THAT WIND AND SOLAR ENERGY BOTH OF WHICH ARE INHERENTLY INTERMITTENT AND UNRELIABLE TO REPLACE. BASE LOW POWER THAT IS CONTINUOUS AND RELIABLE.  ONLY 3 TECHNOLOGIES CAN PRODUCE LARGE AMOUNTS OF BASE LOW POWER: FOSSIL FUELS, HYDROELECTRIC PLANTS AND NUCLEAR POWER. THIS IS THE FOUNDER OF GREENPEACE SAYING WHAT OUR ORGANIZATION IS SAYING, WIND AND SOLAR ARE GREAT. ANY FORM OF ELECTRICITY IS GREAT BUT WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON,  MAKING SURE THERE’S POWER AT ALL TIMES THERE IS NO SOURCE CURRENTLY OTHER THAN THE THREE MENTIONED BY THE FOUNDER OF GREENPEACE THAT CAN DO THAT. 

 

STEPHEN: THIS IS A COMPLETELY MISLEADING ARGUMENT, FIRST OFF I DON’T WORK FOR GREENPEACE SO I DON’T HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO WHAT THE FOUNDER SAYS AND NEITHER DOES ANYBODY THAT WORKS FOR GREENPEACE BUT IN FACT IN THE STATE OF IOWA WE PRESUMABLY GET 25 TO 30 PERCENT OF OUR ENERGY DEMAND FROM WIND POWER IN PARTICULAR AND AGAIN THE COST THAT IS COMPETITIVE WITH COAL AND IN FACT IS CREATING FAR MORE JOBS FOR THE STATE OF IOWA.  25 TO 30 PERCENT IS TWENTY ADDITIONAL PERCENTAGE POINTS THAT WE’RE CURRENTLY GETTING FROM COAL SO WE CAN BACK OFF ON OUR DEPENDENCE ON COAL WITH WIND POWER WITH SOLAR ENERGY BACKED UP BY THINGS LIKE RENEWBLE ENERGY STORAGE WHICH IS COMING ON LINE, BETTER GRID MANAGEMENT IN BOTH EFFICIENCY AND DEMANDS ON MANAGEMENT OF THE REGULATING WIND WE ACTUALLY USE POWER.  FOR INSTANCE THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA DOES THIS RIGHT NOW AND IN ADDITION TO BRINGING SOLAR* TO GENERATE SOME POWER.  THEY ALSO SHUT OFF SOME OF THEIR AIR CONDITIONERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER WHICH NOBODY NOTICES NONE OF THE STUDENTS NOTICE.  MID AMERICAN ACTUALLY PAYS THEM TO SHUT OFF THEIR POWER WHICH AGAIN REDUCES THEIR RELIANCE ON THINGS LIKE COAL SO THE IDEA THAT WIND AND SOLAR CAN MEET 25 TO 35 PERCENT OF OUR ENERGY NEEDS RIGHT NOW WHICH IS A WAY TO BACK OFF COAL FURTHER AND ADDITIONALLY WE ARE DEVELOPING NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO BE ABLE TO MAKE RENEWBLE ENERGIES SO GOOGLE IN PARTICULAR.  ACTUALLY ITS STATED GOAL IS TO MAKE ABUNDANT RELIABLE QUALITY AND RENEWBLE ENERGY CHEAPER THAN COAL.  THAT IS ONE OF GOOGLE’S STATED GOALS.

 

MARK: BUT THEY CAME HERE BECAUSE OF THE CHEAP ELECTRICITY FROM COAL WHICH IS A BIT OF AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT.  MY POINT WOULD BE WHERE CURRENTLY IN THE WORLD IS THERE BASE LOW GENERATION COMING FROM RENEWBLES.  EVEN IN GERMANY WHERE THE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZES A GREAT DEAL FOR SOLAR POWER THERE ARE SOLAR PANELS.  I WATCHED A GREAT SHOW ON PBS TWO WEEKS AGO ALL OVER THE AUTOBAHN IN FARMERS’ YARDS THE PRICE HAS GONE UP THEY HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST IN EUROPE

RIGHT NOW THERE .5 PERCENT OF THEIR ELECTRICITY IS COMING FROM SOLAR EVEN THOUGH IT IS HEAVILY GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED.  BY 2030 THEY’RE HOPING THAT IT CAN BE 3 PERCENT SO THERE IS ALWAYS A MARKET.

 

CHARLOTTE: IT IS NOT JUST MUCH FUN IN GERMANY. 

 

MARK: LAUGHTER.  IOWA HAS A LARGER SOLAR RESOURCE .JUST THE STATE OF IOWA HAS A LARGER SOLAR RESOURCE THAN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF GERMANY. 

 

CHARLOTTE:  I WASN’T SETTING THAT UP

 

MARK: THEY’RE ACTUALLY THE LEADER IN DEVELOPING SOLAR PANELS – THEY’RE DOING FANTASTIC THINGS IN GERMANY THEY’RE TRYING THEIR HARDEST. THEY ARE PUTTING BILLIONS OF EUROS TO THIS.  BILLIONS TO THE POINT WHERE EVEN AT BEST THEY’RE HOPING THAT IN A SMALL COUNTRY THAT’S USING A FRACTION OF ELECTRICITY OUR COUNTRY USES IN ANOTHER FIFTEEN TO EIGHTEEN YEARS 3 PERCENT CAN COME FROM SOMETHING THAT THEY’RE DUMPING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN.  MY POINT BEING WE NEED TO FUND EVERYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY.  YOU KNOW WE ARE DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ARE FOR WHAT OCCURS WITH OUR COAL RESERVES TO NOT USE THEM OR AT LEAST TO NOT USE THEM WISELY AND CLEANLY WOULD BE A….TALK ABOUT A MORAL IMPERATIVE WE NEED TO KEEP THE RATES LOW WE NEED TO USE AN INDIGOUS RESOURCE WE NEED TO GET AWAY FROM SOURCES OF FOREIGN OIL.  AND YES COAL DOESN’T POWER CARS BUT WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT COMING WITH NEW WAYS TO PROPEL AUTOMOBILES IN THE FUTURE, ITS ELECTRICITY. ELECTRIC CARS 50 PERCENT OF OUR ELECTRICITY COMES FROM COAL OR ITS HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS I’VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF DRIVING A HYDROGEN CAR BEFORE.  ONE OF THE BY-PRODUCTS OF GASIFIED COAL IGCC PROCESS IS HYDROGEN.  THE OTHER WAY CURRENTLY WE KNOW IS CRACKING WATER MOLECULES H20 WHICH IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AND ENERGY INTENSIVE TO DO.  SO YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT EVEN THE FUTURE OF WEANING FROM FOREIGN ENERGY SOURCES EVEN FOR AUTOMOBILES.  AMERICAN COAL PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN TO THE EXTENT THAT WE FIND WAYS TO USE IT AS CLEANLY AS POSSIBLE AND CAPTURE AND SEQUESTER CO2.  THIS COUNTRY BECOMES MORE ENERGY INDEPENDENT.

 

CHARLOTTE:  I’M JUST AND I’LL ASK THIS OF ALL OF YOU BUT IN JUST READING THIS AGAIN AND I’M QUOTING FROM GE: “NITROGEN OXIDE, SULFUR OXIDE, MERCURY, CARBON DIOXIDE, FINE PARTICLES WHATEVER AND AIR POLLUTANTS.”  IS IT SCIENTIFICALLY FEASIBLE THAT THESE CAN BE REDUCED?

 

MARK:  THEY’VE BEEN REDUCED 70 PERCENT SINCE THE CLEAN AIR ACT OF THE LATE 80’S.

 

STEPHEN:  I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.  THE TECHNOLOGY SHE’S TALKING ABOUT WE’VE BEEN ABLE TO CLEAR, BUT IT’S STILL FIFTEEN TO TWENTY YEARS OFF AS WELL FROM A COMMERCIAL VIABILITY PERSPECTIVE.  WE DON’T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT IT’S EVER GOING TO BE FEASIBLE.  WE KNOW ENERGY EFFICIENCY RENEWBLE ARE ABUNDANTLY AVAILABLE TODAY AT A LOWER COST THAN COAL AND THAT CREATES MORE JOBS.  WE KNOW THOSE THINGS THOSE ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN AND AGAIN TESTIFIED TO IN THE STATE OF IOWA.  WHY WOULD WE DEBATE YOU KNOW MOVING FORWARD WITH COAL PLANTS THAT AREN’T CAPABLE OF USING THAT TECHNOLOGY THAT WON’T USE THAT TECHNOLOGY AT ANY KIND OF ECONOMIC WHEN IN FACT WE HAVE THESE OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE GREAT FOR THE STATE OF IOWA.  ITS JUST THERE IS NO REASON TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE COAL PLANTS AND ONE THING WE CAN SAY FOR CERTAIN THAT PEOPLE IN THIS STATE NEED TO DO IS SPEAK OUT AND SAY WE DON’T NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE COAL PLANTS NOW WE HAVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN RENEWBLE*.  WE NEED TO INVEST IN THOSE FIRST THAT CAN REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCE ON COAL REDUCE MERCURY EMISSIONS AND THE OTHER 67 TOXIC POLLUTANTS THAT ARE FOUND AND EMITTED FROM BURNING COAL.

 

CHARLOTTE:  AND THESE COAL PLANTS ARE THE ONES IN MARSHALLTOWN AND IN WATERLOO?

 

MARK: ABSOLUTELY

 

CHARLOTTE: DOES YOUR ORGANIZATION HAVE A POSITION ON THESE?

 

TERESA:  I GUESS WHAT I WANTED TO GET BACK TO IS THE POINT THAT COAL IS AN INDIGENOUS RESOURCE BUT NOT TO IOWA.  TO IOWA OUR INDIGENOUS RESOURCES ARE OUR WIND POWER, AND OUR HUMAN CAPITAL TO PUT IN TO PLACE THE EFFICIENCY MEASURES THAT WILL AS MARK SAYS BE COST-SAVING TO THE STATE, COST SAVING TO THE CONSUMERS, CONSUMERS THAT ENACT THESE EFFICIENCY MEASURES AS WELL AS TO ALL OTHER *REPAIRERS WHEN YOU’RE REDUCING THE DEMAND SO THERE’S A LOT OF POTENTIAL YET THERE. 

 

CHARLOTTE: WE USED TO HAVE COAL IN IOWA

 

TERESA:  AND I THINK THE LAST PLANT CLOSED

 

CHARLOTTE: TOO DIFFICULT TO MINE?

 

STEPHEN:  NO, IT’S JUST EASIER, ITS PROBABLY MORE COST EFFICIENT TO GET IT FROM PLACES FROM WYOMING LIKE THE POWDER RIVER BASIN AND BRING IT IN.  I SAW A TRAIN COMING THROUGH TOWN WHEN I GOT OUT OF MY CAR HERE, SO ITS THE EFFICIENCY OF BEING ABLE TO SHIP COAL IS PROBABLY EASIER THAN IT HAS BEEN.  I GO BACK TO A POINT IS IOWA OR ANY STATE ACTING ALONE TO EITHER IMPACT THE USE OF COAL IN THE STATE WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A NATIONAL AND MORE IMPORTANTLY A GLOBAL ISSUE HERE.  AND WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING THROUGH SOME MEASURES WHETHER IT’S STOPPING THE BUILDING OF NEW PLANTS OR STRICTLY MAKING VERY STRICT REGULATIONS ABOUT EMISSIONS THAT ARE ALREADY UNDER CONTROL AS I SAID 70 PER CENT AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT AFFECTS THE RATES IMMENSELY FOR THE CURRENT RATE PAYERS AND ANY SORT OF ISSUES WITH COAL IN THE STATE OF IOWA SINCE IT IS 80 PERCENT MARK’S POINT BEING THAT IS THE PROBLEM BUT WHEN YOU START ENACTING LEGISLATION THAT’S MEANT TO IMPACT GLOBAL EMISSIONS IN IOWA ALONE AND NOT LOOKING AT THE NATIONAL OR GLOBAL PICTURE, RATE PAYERS, SMALL FAMILIES, SMALL BUSINESSES OWNERS ARE THE ONES THAT REALLY END UP TAKING THE BRUNT OF THAT AND IT’S A NATIONAL ISSUE AND MORE IMPORTANTLY IT’S A GLOBAL ISSUE AND IF WE DON’T DEVELOP TECHNOLOGIES IN THIS COUNTRY FOR CLEAN COAL.  WE EXPORT A GREAT AMOUNT OF COAL TO OTHER COUNTRIES.  CHINA AND INDIA ARE USING COAL AND WILL USE THE COAL HOWEVER THEY SEE FIT TO EMPOWER THEIR PEOPLE.  WE NEED TO NOT ONLY MAKE SURE THAT THINGS GET DONE CLEAN HERE, BUT TO DEVELOP THOSE TECHNOLOGIES SO THAT WE CAN THEN CHAMPION AROUND THE WORLD IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES. IN COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA THEY’RE PUTTING A NEW COAL PLANT ON LINE ONCE A WEEK.  IF WE CAN SEVERELY IMPACT PEOPLE HERE MAKE THEIR RATES JUMP ASTRONOMICALLY AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DENT IN ANYTHING GOING ON GLOBALLY BECAUSE WE HAVEN’T DEVELOPED THE TECHNOLOGY IN COUNTRIES THAT ARE USING IT NOW THAT ARE DEVELOPING AS WE ONCE WERE TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO.

 

MARK: THE IDEA THAT OUR RATES ARE GOING TO JUMP ASTRONOMICALLY IS SIMPLY SCARE MONGERING.  IT’S NOT THE CASE IF WE INVEST IN EFFICIENCY AND RENEWBLES INSTEAD.  BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY ONE OF THE LEADING CLIMATE SCIENTISTS IN THE COUNTRY DR. JAMES HANSEN AN IOWAN WITH THREE DEGREES FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA SAID THAT THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE NEED TO DO IN THIS COUNTRY TO REDUCE OUR IMPACT ON GLOBAL WARMING TO PROTECT THOSE AROUND THE WORLD THOSE IN SWAZILAND AND BANGLADESH WHERE THE EPISCOPAL BISHOP OF IOWA CURRENTLY IS DOWN IN SWAZILAND WHO IS TAKING HE IS TAKING A STAND THAT WE DON’T NEED TO BUILD THESE NEW COAL PLANTS.  WHEN THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE NEED TO DO IS PUT A MORATORIUM ON NEW COAL PLANTS IN THE STATE OF IOWA AND IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY AND TO ACTIVELY ADDRESS THIS. I THINK WE SHOULD LISTEN.  WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT INCREASING ENERGY COSTS AND THE THING TO DO IS START WITH A MORATORIUM A TIME OUT AS IT WERE ON NEW COAL PLANTS BOTH WITHIN THE STATE OF IOWA AND NATIONALLY, BUT THAT TAKES LEADERSHIP IT TAKES STATES LIKE KANSAS WHERE GOVERNOR SEBELIUS HAS STEPPED UP AND SHOWED THE REST OF THE COUNTRY HOW TO COMBAT COAL, HOW TO REDUCE ITS IMPACTS AND STAND UP TO THE COAL INDUSTRY AND THOSE FUNDED BY THE COAL INDUSTRY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE’S LIVES. 

 

STEPHEN: ONE THING THAT HANSEN DOESN’T DO IT’S EASY TO LOOK AT ONE ASPECT, BUT ENERGY ENVIRONMENT PRODUCTION AND ECONOMY ARE ALL LINKED AND IF ONE IS IMPACTED THEY’RE ALL IMPACTED AND REDUCING CO2 EMISSION IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.  I DON’T THINK WE’RE GOING TO GET A DISAGREEMENT ON THIS PANEL AT ALL.  HOWEVER, THE IMPACT THAT IT CAN HAVE ON WORKING FAMILIES, THE IMPACT THAT IT CAN HAVE ON BUSINESSES AND THE FACT THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ARE GOING TO BE USING COAL WHETHER WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGIES OR NOT, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ENVIRONMENT, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ECONOMY, WHAT HAPPENS TO EVERYTHING.  EVERYTHING IS TIED TOGETHER WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND IT’S VITALLY IMPORTANT TO NOT JUST PICK ONE ASPECT OF WHAT DR. HANSEN IS SAYING, BUT LOOK AT WHAT ECONOMISTS ARE SAYING ABOUT WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO THIS COUNTRY IF RATES GO UP TOO HIGH.

 

MARK:  WORKING FAMILIES WANT JOBS AND WIND TURBINE COMPONENT MANUFACTURING, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, WIND TURBINE DESIGN IMPLEMENTATION THOSE ARE CREATING MORE JOBS IN THE STATE OF IOWA THAN COAL WILL.  IF WE WANT TO PROTECT THOSE IN LOW INCOMES I MEAN HIS IDEAS ABOUT ECONOMY SIMPLY AREN’T TRUE IN THE STATE OF IOWA.  AGAIN WE CAN CREATE TO MEET ENERGY MEANS A LOWER COST WITH MORE JOBS CREATED WITH ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND WIND POWER AND THAT’S BACKED UP BY THE OFFICE OF THE CONSUMER ADVOCATE AND THAT’S PART OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND ANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE SHOWN WHAT’S TAKING  PLACE.

 

STEPHEN: IF IOWA WERE ITS OWN COUNTRY, THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC, BUT ITS PART OF 49 OTHER STATES, ITS PART OF A GLOBAL ECONOMY AND YOU KNOW IT ALL NEEDS TO BE DONE IN CONJUNCTION ONE STATE ACTING ALONE CAN SEVERELY IMPACT THEIR RESIDENTS.  I DON’T BELIEVE ACTING ALONE CAN BE A LEADER.

 

TERESA: THAT’S RIGHT, IOWA HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE A LEADER HERE AND TO SHOW OTHER THE REST OF THE STATES HOW TO FOLLOW….

 

STEPHEN:  BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO ACT NATIONALLY WE NEED TO SHOW NATIONAL LEADERSHIP ON A GLOBAL SCALE SO SMALLER FAMILIES, FAMILIES LIKE MINE DON’T GET IMPACTED IF RATES DOUBLE OVER THE NEXT YEAR WITH THE PRICE OF GAS BEING WHAT IT IS WITH THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING BEING WHAT IT IS.

 

TERESA: THE ABSENCE OF FEDERAL LEADERSHIP ON THAT LEVEL WE’RE GLAD TO SEE IOWA TAKING GOOD STEPS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY.

 

STEPHEN:  AS ARE WE, WE THINK IOWA DOES A GREAT JOB IN THAT WE’RE JUST HOPING FOR FEDERAL LEADERS.

 

CHARLOTTE: WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY RESOLVED THIS PROBLEM (LAUGHTER) AND WE’VE TAKEN CARE OF IT AND WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING AND THANK YOU TO THE GUESTS FOR BEING WITH US THIS MORNING.