PETER: GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO ETHICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE NEWS.  MY NAME IS PETER WELCH AND I’M THE MODERATOR FOR THIS MORNING’S SHOW.  THIS MORNING WE’D LIKE TO VISIT ABOUT THE DRINKING AND DRIVING PROBLEMS THAT WE’RE CURRENTLY EXPERIENCING IN OUR SOCIETY.  AND WHILE MOST OF US REALIZE THAT IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN WE’D LIKE, THE QUESTIONS OF WHO SHOULD BEAR THE RESPONSIBILITY AND THE LIABILITY FOR THE DAMAGE THAT’S CAUSED.  MANY OF US IN THE MIDWEST REMEMBER THE RECENT STORY ABOUT THE HANCOCK, THE PITCHER OF THE ST LOUIS CARDINALS, AND THEN THE CRASH THAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT.  THIS PROGRAM ISN’T ABOUT THAT BUT THAT STORY SPONSORED THE IDEA FOR THIS PROGRAM.  WITH US THIS MORNING IS FATHER MARK OSTERHAUS WHO IS THE PASTOR OF ST. MATTHEW’S CHURCH HERE IN CEDAR RAPIDS.  ALSO WITH US IS DEE VANDERHOEF WHO’S A COMMUNITY ACTIVIST AND MEMBER OF THE IOWA CITY COUNCIL.  ROUNDING OUT OUR PANEL THIS MORNING IS MR. RAY STEFANI WHO’S A LOCAL CEDAR RAPIDS ATTORNEY.  GOOD MORNING.  COUNTRIES THAT ARE VERY MUCH TOUGHER ON THESE TYPE OF LAWS AND SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY INCLUDE JAPAN, NORWAY AND I BELIEVE SWEDEN. AND IN THOSE COUNTRIES ONE OFFENSE OF A DRUNK DRIVING CAN LEAD TO A LIFETIME BAN ON DRIVING.  IS THAT THE CORRECT ANSWER DO YOU THINK AT ALL?

DEE: IT WOULD APPEAR TO WORK IN THE COUNTRY OF WALES.  MY DAUGHTER SPENT TIME THERE AS AN EXCHANGE STUDENT AND SHE COMPLAINED ABOUT  THE BUSSES STOPPED RUNNING AND EVERYONE WALKED HOME AND SHE WORE OUT A LOT OF SHOES ON THE COBBLESTONE STREETS.  BUT THE STUDENTS DID NOT WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE.

PETER: ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF THE SOCIETY IN GENERAL VERSUS THOSE INDIVIDUAL OR PRIVATE RIGHTS OF THE PERSON AND WEIGH THE TWO AGAINST EACH OTHER, IS THAT IN PART WHAT WE’RE  DOING?

DEE: IN THAT CASE I THINK PROBABLY THEY’RE SAYING YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS IF YOU DON’T OBEY THE LAWS.

RAY:  THE PROBLEM THAT SOME PEOPLE VIEW I SHOULD SAY IN JUST IOWA ALONE IS THAT THEY FEEL THAT A DRIVER’S LICENSE IS A RIGHT INSTEAD OF A PRIVILEGE WHICH IS WHAT IT REALLY IS AND THE PROBLEM WITH A LIFETIME BAN ON THAT AND I DON’T KNOW IF A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS BUT THEY HAVE MANY, MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE STREETS, THE HIGHWAYS THAT ARE DRIVING ON BARRED LICENSE RIGHT NOW.  AND I WONDER IF BY GOING TO THAT YOU’RE GOING TO INCREASE THAT PROBLEM OF MANY PEOPLE DRIVING ON A BARRED LICENSE.  SO I’M NOT SURE FROM WHAT I KNOW THAT THAT’S GOING TO BE AN ANSWER TO STOPPING THE DRINKING AND DRIVING ALL TOGETHER.  IT’D BE A NICE BLACK WHITE SITUATION OF JUST SAYING HEY, IT’S EITHER THIS OR THAT, BUT I DON’T THINK IT’S THAT SIMPLE, SO I WONDER ABOUT THAT ISSUE OF ENFORCEMENT.  THAT IT’S GOING TO CREATE ANOTHER BIGGER PROBLEM OF DRIVING WHILE YOUR LICENSE IS BARRED.  AND IN SOME OF MY WORK I SEE THAT.  AND SO THAT’S A CONCERN THAT I WOULD HAVE ABOUT JUST IMMEDIATELY SWITCHING OVER TO THAT KIND OF PENALTY.  I THINK WE MAY BE HEADED IN THAT DIRECTION BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURES ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THOSE PENALTIES TO AGAIN CONTROL THE DRIVING AND THE  DRINKING. 

PETER: FATHER, ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT?

MARK: I THINK THAT IF WE DID GO TO THAT AS A NATION WE’D CERTAINLY HAVE TO INCREASE OUR MASS TRANSIT SYSTEMS.

PETER: YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT FATHER BECAUSE MANY OF THESE COUNTRIES HAVE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE OF A MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM IN PLACE AND WE THROUGH OUR NATURE AND THE AUTOMOBILE COMPANIES ARE RELIANT ON AUTOS AND WE DON’T HAVE THAT MASS TRANSIT IN PLACE.  SO, WE’RE TALKING A BIG DIFFERENCE HERE AREN’T WE? 

MARK: YES, IT’S REALLY A PART OF OUR CULTURE AND DEPENDENCE AND I’M WONDERING IF IN SOME CASES AT LEAST WHERE SOMEONE WOULD BE PULLED OVER FOR DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE PERHAPS THERE MIGHT BE SOME MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WOULD MAKE A LIFETIME BAN RATHER SEVERE.

PETER: WHAT ABOUT UNANNOUNCED SOBRIETY CHECKS BEING PLACED IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES?  WHEN I LIVED IN JAPAN, I KNEW THAT THE JAPANESE POLICE WOULD SET UP ROADBLOCKS IF YOU WILL AND EVERYBODY HAD TO PASS WHEN THEY WERE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD.  WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT COULD WORK IN AMERICA DO YOU THINK?

MARK:  AGAIN I THINK OUR CULTURE PERHAPS IS USED TO MORE RIGHTS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL AND PEOPLE MIGHT SEE THAT AS EXCESSIVE.  IF YOU DON’T HAVE A REASON TO PULL ME OVER, THEN WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS.  AND I WONDER IF THERE’D BE A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES CONNECTED WITH THIS.  THERE AREN’T ENOUGH POLICE TO BE DOING THIS FOR EVERYONE, SO WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME.  AND WE’VE TALKED ABOUT PROBLEMS WITH RACIAL PROFILING AND OTHER TYPES OF SITUATIONS, THAT WOULD REALLY PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT. I DON’T KNOW IF, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE A REASON IF SOMEONE’S PULLED OVER. 

PETER: DEE, AS A MEMBER OF THE IOWA CITY COUNCIL CAN YOU SHARE WITH US WHAT IOWA CITY IS DOING DIFFERENTLY, CLEARLY WITH THE STUDENT POPULATION AS LARGE AS THE UNIVERSITY, THERE’S A DIFFERENT BISECTION OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE DRIVING AND OUT THERE, SO COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT IOWA CITY IS DOING?

DEE: WELL IOWA CITY HAS CERTAINLY STRUGGLED WITH ALCOHOL ISSUES.  AND IT’S COMING FROM OUR PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT.  IT’S COMING FROM THE UNIVERSITY STUDENT HEALTH DEPARTMENT WHO ARE SEEING YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE BECOMING DEPENDENT ON ALCOHOL AND CERTAINLY FROM THE MEDICAL VIEW OF IT THE INFORMATION SAYS THAT THE EARLIER A YOUNG PERSON STARTS DRINKING, THE MORE APT THEY ARE TO BECOME DEPENDENT ON ALCOHOL.  FOR SOME REASON THE YOUNG BODY DOES NOT HANDLE ALCOHOL THE SAME WAYAS AN ADULT BODY DOES.  BUT IN IOWA CITY I PULLED SOME NUMBERS TODAY FROM MY POLICE CHIEF AND LAST YEAR WE HAD JUST SHORT OF 500 OWI’S WITHIN THE CITY ITSELF.  AND FOR THE FIRST SIX MONTHS THIS YEAR WE’RE RIGHT ON SCHEDULE TO BE AT THE SAME NUMBER NEXT YEAR.  SO WE’RE WORKING HARD BUT IT TAKES A LOT OF POLICING TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE THIS CULTURE THAT SEEMS TO BE SAYING WE CAN’T HAVE FUN UNLESS WE’RE DRINKING. AND THAT’S WHAT I’D LIKE TO SEE INTERRUPTED AND OTHER THINGS PUT IN TO DO.  BUT WE ALSO HAVE A CULTURE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO FREQUENTLY GO AROUND AND THEY’LL SAY IT TO THEIR PARENTS AND THEIR FRIENDS, I’M BORED.  AND SO THEY’RE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR NEW EXPERIENCES ALL THE TIME AND THE BAR SEEMS TO BE THE SOCIAL CENTER FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE YOUNG PEOPLE.

PETER: I SEE.  I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE RESEARCH THAT I DID SHOWED THAT SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES ARE NOW GETTING ACTIVE AND THEY’RE MONITORING THINGS SUCH AS USE ON THE WATERS AND THE LAKES AND THE RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE PROVIDED BY CITIES.  AND IN FACT WHAT HAPPENS IS WITH THE ABSENCE OF ALCOHOL IN THESE AREAS THEN THE FAMILIES ARE RETURNING TO THESE AREAS AND THEY GET THE UNIMPEDED ENJOYMENT AND SO THAT THE CITY BENEFITS AND THEY’RE NOT SURE WHERE THE OTHER MIGHT GO BUT CERTAINLY IT MAKES IT A MUCH MORE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY WHEN THE PEOPLE IN THE CITY CAN ENJOY IT. 

DEE: FOR CERTAIN.  ONE OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT THEY TRY TO DO DURING THE CAMPUS OPEN HOUSES AND FURTHER ON IS TO FAMILIARIZE THEM WITH THINGS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN IOWA CITY AND CERTAINLY THE CITY HAS EXPANDED THEIR TRAIL SYSTEM SO THAT THERE ARE THOSE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES DURING THE NICE WEATHER AT LEAST OF BIKING AND ACCESSING OTHER PARKS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY.

PETER: I SEE.  RAY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S CLEAR THAT HAPPENS WITH DRINKING DRIVERS IS THEY HIT AND CAUSE BOTH PHYSICAL DAMAGE AND THEY KILL PEOPLE, INJURE PEOPLE.  YOU BROUGHT UP THE POINT EARLIER ABOUT SO MANY UNLICENSED OR PEOPLE THAT HAVE SUSPENDED LICENSE. AND THEN YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE NO RECOVERY BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY DOESN’T HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE AND IS THE PUBLIC RESPONSIBLE?  I MEAN DOESN’T THAT PRESENT QUITE A LITTLE PROBLEM?

RAYMOND: WELL AS FOLKS MAY KNOW THE PENALTIES FOR THE DRIVING AND DRINKING RANGE FROM YOUR FIRST OFFENSE OF 48 HOURS IN JAIL, THEN IN  THE SECOND OFFENSE MODE, YOU WOULD HAVE 7 DAYS.  AND THESE ARE MANDATORY TIMES THAT YOU HAVE TO SERVE.  AND FOR A THIRD OFFENSE OR MORE ,YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE AT LEAST 30 DAYS IN JAIL.  BUT FROM A CIVIL STANDPOINT, THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR  THE DAMAGES, INJURIES THAT ARE CAUSED BY FOLKS, ONE OF THE REMEDIES THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO IMPOSE IS UPON THOSE WHO PROVIDE THE ALCOHOL TO THOSE WHO ARE DRINKING.  IF YOU’RE GOING TO BE IN THAT BUSINESS THEN YOU NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGE THAT THE INTOXICATED PERSON CAUSES TO OTHERS.  AND THAT CAN RANGE FROM LOSS OF THE SUPPORT OF THE PERSON THAT’S INJURED WHO PROVIDES SUPPORT TO OTHERS, PROPERTY DAMAGE AND SO FORTH.  AND TO TRY TO REMEDY SOME OF THAT. AND SPEAKING BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE DRIVING ON A BARRED OR SUSPENDED LICENSE AND THEY DON’T HAVE WHAT WE CALL FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY- INSURANCE COVERAGE - THAT THIS IS ONE WAY THAT MAYBE YOU CAN GET COMPENSATED FOR A LOSS THAT YOU SUFFERED AS A RESULT OF THIS IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON.   IT’S UNFORTUNATE THAT IN THIS DAY AND AGE AND WE’RE SO EDUCATED AND INTELLIGENT WITH ALL THE INFORMATION GOING ON IN OUR WORLD, WE STILL HAVE MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT DON’T WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.  AND RESPONSIBILITY WOULD START I THINK AS I  LOOK AT IOWA CITY AND THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA, THEY’RE TRYING TO EDUCATE THEIR STUDENTS TO TRY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND DON’T DRINK ALCOHOL IRRESPONSIBLY.  BUT BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN SOMEBODY HAS A LOSS - THEY SUFFER DAMAGE, WHERE CAN YOU GO.  THE IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON, THE  DRUNK, AS WE ALL REFER TO THEM, HE’S NOT GOING TO HAVE IT AND SO THERE ARE OTHERS WHO HAVE PROFITED FROM THE DRUNK’S MONEY THAT MAYBE THAT’S FAIR.  AND THAT’S WHAT THE LEGISLATURES HAVE DECIDED.  IF IT’S GOING TO BE FAIR YOU PROFIT FROM PROVIDING ALL THIS ALCOHOL, THEN YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME OF THE DAMAGE THAT IT CAUSES DOWN THE LINE.  AND SO THAT’S ONE WAY - AM I SPEAKING TO WHAT YOU’RE WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT, I HOPE - THAT’S KIND OF A LONG-WINDED EXPLANATION.

PETER: ONE OF THE THINGS  IS THERE’S A LOT OF PEOPLE WONDERING IF YOU DON’T HAVE INSURANCE AND YOU’RE A VICTIM OF THESE THINGS, ISN’T THERE A VICTIMS FUND, STATEWIDE, BUT ISN’T IT REALLY RATHER INADEQUATE?

RAYMOND: WELL, IT IS. THAT DOESN’T SPEAK TO A LOT OF THE DAMAGES AND INJURIES CAUSED BY DRUNK DRIVERS.  AND THOSE WHO ARE DRIVING ON A BARRED LICENSE. SOMETIMES THERE MAY BE NO REMEDY BECAUSE THAT PERSON IS PROBABLY NUMBER ONE, NO FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, TWO, NO INSURANCE COVERAGE TO PROVIDE FOR THAT.  BUT WITH DRINKING DRIVING, THAT’S ONE AVENUE FOR RECOVERY AS AGAINST THOSE WHO PROVIDE THE ALCOHOL. THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE.  BUT THAT STATE VICTIMS FUND - I DON’T THINK THAT’S GOING TO BE A SUFFICIENT SOURCE TO GET A REMEDY FOR WHATEVER YOU’VE LOST.

PETER: FATHER, AREN’T WE GETTING TO, WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE ROLE OF WHETHER IT’S THE PARENTS, THE UNIVERSITY OR THE COMMUNITY - AREN’T WE GETTING TO A ROLE OF GIVING  PEOPLE A CODE OF CONDUCT WHEREBY THEY YOU KNOW THEY CARE FOR THEIR FELLOW MAN IN ADDITION TO JUST THEIR OWN EXCESSES OR INFALLIBILITIES?

MARK: YES, IN FACT IT CREATED KIND OF A STIR OUT OF ROME FROM THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL OF MIGRANTS AND TRAVELERS, SO IT DIDN’T COME FROM POPE BENEDICT HIMSELF.  BUT THERE WERE TEN RULES OF THE ROAD  AND CARDINAL RENATO MARTINI IS THE ONE OUT OF WHOSE OFFICE THIS CAME, AND IT’S KIND OF DAVE LETTERMAN-ESQUE - YOU KNOW IT HAS THE TOP TEN THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO DO.  BUT SOME OF WHAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IS COVERED IN HERE.  I COULD JUST READ A COUPLE OF THEM TO YOU - THIS IS FROM OUR ARCHDIOSCESAN NEWSPAPER, THE WITNESS.  AND IT SAYS, “BE CHARITABLE AND HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR IN NEED, ESPECIALLY VICTIMS OF ACCIDENTS.  CHARITABLY CONVINCE THE YOUNG AND NOT-SO-YOUNG NOT TO DRIVE WHEN THEY ARE NOT IN A FITTING CONDITION TO DO SO. SUPPORT THE FAMILIES OF ACCIDENT VICTIMS.  AND BRING GUILTY MOTORISTS AND THEIR VICTIMS TOGETHER AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME SO THAT THEY CAN UNDERGO  THE LIBERATING EXPERIENCE OF FORGIVENESS.”  AND WE LIVE IN AN AUTOMOBILE CULTURE.  AND WHAT THE CHURCHES CAN SAY IS IT HAS AN EFFECT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, BECAUSE THE CAR CULTURE DEMANDS A LOT FROM OUR ENVIRONMENT, SO THERE’S A COST THAT’S ASSOCIATED THERE, BUT IT REALLY IS A COST OF HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS.  I OFTEN AM AMAZED WHEN I THINK ABOUT HERE’S A VEHICLE THAT WEIGHS  A COUPLE OF TONS COMING AT ME AT 70 MILES AN HOUR, 60 MILES AN HOUR, AND I’M GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION JUST AS FAST, AND THERE’S A PAINTED LINE AND MAYBE ABOUT THAT MUCH SPACE AND THERE’S A LOT OF TRUST INVOLVED IN THAT ARRANGEMENT.  AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE PASS EACH OTHER THAT WAY A DAY AROUND THE WORLD.  AND I WAS READING SOME STATISTICS THAT AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENTS IN THE YEAR 2000, THERE WERE 1.3 MILLION DEATHS WORLDWIDE FROM AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENTS.  AND SO THE REASON THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CAME OUT WITH THIS RULE OF THE ROAD TYPE OF TEACHING IS YES, WE SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY TO OUR PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT OUR FAITH, ABOUT WHAT ARE  CODES OF CONDUCT HERE, BECAUSE THESE ARE PEOPLE IN COMMUNITY WITH EACH OTHER, AND WE’RE PUTTING A LOT OF TRUST ON A PAINTED LINE.

PETER: IN DOING THE RESEARCH, SINCE 2000 THROUGH 2005, THE DEATHS FROM ALCOHOL-RELATED DRIVING HAVE BEEN COMING DOWN, AND SO IT APPEARS WE’RE HEADED IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION.  BUT DO YOU THINK WE’RE DOING ENOUGH?  I MEAN GROUPS LIKE MADD ARE STILL OUT THERE VERY ACTIVE.  ARE WE HEADED THE RIGHT WAY? OR ARE WE GOING TO CUT DOWN ALL RESTAURANTS AND BUSINESS FROM EVEN SERVING ALCOHOL?

RAY: I THINK THAT WE’RE HEADED THE RIGHT WAY.  BUT ONE ACCIDENT, ONE INJURY, ONE DEATH IS ONE TOO MANY.  AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO MINDFUL OF THAT.  AND SO, YOU ASK SHOULD MORE BE DONE.  I THINK YES, MORE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE DONE.  IT’S A CONSTANT PROBLEM.  THE EXCITEMENT, THE WANTING TO BE ENTERTAINED - THOSE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE DEVIL FELL OUT OF HEAVEN, FATHER.  I MEAN IT’S THAT TYPE OF LIFE THAT EVERYBODY LOVES TO SEE, BUT THEN FORGET ABOUT ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT JOY RIDING AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF.  AND I THINK THAT THE MORE THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT, YOU’RE GOING TO SEE I THINK STIFFER LAWS.  INSTEAD OF 48 HOURS IN JAIL FOR A FIRST TIME, IT MAY GO UP TO A WEEK IN JAIL FOR THAT.  AND SO I THINK WE’RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT YOU’RE GOING TO SEE STIFFER PENALTIES. 

PETER: I KNOW IN CITIES LIKE TOKYO WHERE I LIVED, AND CERTAINLY I BELIEVE STOCKHOLM AND OSLO, AT NIGHT, SAY LIKE AT TEN O’CLOCK AT NIGHT, 75 TO 80% OF YOUR TRAFFIC IS TAXIS.  AND NOBODY ELSE DRIVES AND EVERYBODY WOULD TAKE A TAXI.  OR YOUR COMMENT FATHER WAS PUBLIC TRANSIT.  IT’S AVAILABLE TO GET THE PEOPLE HOME.

MARK: YOU TALKED EARLIER, RAY, THAT IT’S A PRIVILEGE TO DRIVE AND I THINK FOR PEOPLE IT’S ALSO A PRIVILEGE TO DRINK.  AND SO IF WE’RE GOING TO HAVE BOTH, THEN I THINK IT’S EITHER A SCENARIO LIKE YOU DESCRIBED, PETER, WHERE TAXIS ARE AVAILABLE, MASS TRANSIT IS GOOD, OR OUR CITIES ARE MUCH MORE WALKABLE - OTHERWISE WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE STIFFER AND STIFFER PENALTIES FOR PEOPLE THAT DRINK AND DRIVE IF WE WANT THE ACCIDENT RATE TO GO DOWN.

DEE: CERTAINLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE BAR OWNERS HAVE DONE IN IOWA CITY IS THIS DESIGNATED DRIVER.  AND IF YOU GO IN WITH A GROUP THAT IS PARTYING, THEN THE DESIGNATED DRIVER HAS ALL THE FREE SODAS THAT THEY WANT FOR THE NIGHT, AND SOME OF THEM WILL EXCLUDE THEM FROM THE COVER CHARGE, JUST TO BE SURE THAT THERE’S ONE THERE.  CERTAINLY IT ISN’T ALL OF THE BARS THAT PARTICIPATE IN THAT, BUT THAT’S ONE STEP THAT THEY’RE RECOGNIZING THAT THERE ARE SOME REWARDS FOR BEING RESPONSIBLE.

PETER: WHAT ABOUT PUTTING A BREATHALYZER TESTER AVAILABLE IN BARS OR RESTAURANTS - IS THAT EVEN A REASONABLE IDEA, OR ARE WE JUST CREATING A NEW GAME TO SEE WHO CAN STILL BE STANDING UP AND HAVE AS MUCH AS THEY CAN TO DRINK.  THAT’S NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST SOLUTION.

DEE: NO, AND THE BREATHALYZER CERTAINLY HAS ITS PLACE.  I WAS REAL PLEASED TO SEE THEM START USING IT WITH BOAT OPERATORS, WHICH HAS BEEN A HUGE PROBLEM.  AND I’VE HAD MANY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE UP ON LAKE OKOBOJI IN MY YOUNGER YEARS.  AND THAT’S A REAL DANGEROUS LAKE AND HAS BEEN FOR QUITE SOME TIME.   BECAUSE STUDENTS AND TOO MUCH LIQUOR JUST DON’T MIX.  I’VE ALSO DONE PATROLS WITH  MY POLICE DEPARTMENT AT BAR CLOSING TIME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WINTER, AND WE TALK ABOUT THAT ALTERNATIVE OF A TAXI.  THESE KIDS WILL COME OUT OF THE BAR, AND THEY’LL COME BANG ON OUR DOOR, “CALL ME A CAB, CALL ME A CAB.”  WELL, IF THEY AREN’T RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO PLAN THEIR CAB EARLIER, THE CAB COMPANIES - AND WE’VE GOT EIGHTEEN OR NINETEEN NOW IN IOWA CITY - SOME OF THEM ARE ONE-CAR BUSINESS, BUT WE HAVE THEM.  BUT THEY TURN OFF THEIR CELL PHONES WHEN THEY CAN NO LONGER TAKE ANY MORE.  SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS.  CERTAINLY A BUS THAT RUNS THE LOOPS TO THE BIG HOUSING DORMS.  BUT WE HAVE SUCH A SMALL PERCENT OF OUR STUDENTS THAT ACTUALLY LIVE IN DORMS.  OF OUR CLOSE TO 30,000 STUDENTS, IT’S ONLY 5-6000.  IT’S JUST A VERY TINY AMOUNT TO HAVE IN THE DORMS.  SO HERE AGAIN, THEY DON’T HAVE A DORM MONITOR AND CERTAINLY THE LAWS OF PARENTAL RULE WHERE THE GIRLS GOT LOCKED IN AT 10:30 AT NIGH, WHICH I ADMIT THAT’S WHAT IT WAS WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, AND YOU HAD TO RING THE BELL TO GET IN, AND YOU GOT CAMPUSED  IF YOU WERE LATE COMING IN, SO IT’S A WHOLE DIFFERENT CULTURE AND A WHOLE LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY.  AND THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD LOOK AT IS WHAT ARE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE BEING TAUGHT AS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE THEY COME TO THE UNIVERSITY.  WE KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME, PERHAPS, THAT THEY’VE BEEN OUT ON THEIR OWN.  THEY’VE GOT THEIR OWN CREDIT CARD AND CHECK BOOK OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY USE.  BUT ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE WITH THEIR CREDIT CARDS?  I SUSPECT  THERE’S A GOOD PORTION OF THEM THAT ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE WITH THEM.  SO IT ISN’T JUST MONEY OR ALCOHOL.  BUT THERE IS AN UNDERLYING WHAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PARENTS IN TEACHING THEIR YOUNG PEOPLE ?  

PETER: IS IT PERHAPS THEY’VE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE REGULATION OF THEIR PARENTS IN THEIR HOME?

DEE: IT CAN BE.  THAT’S CERTAINLY ONE PIECE OF IT.

PETER: RAY, YOU BROUGHT UP THE COMMENT ABOUT THE PROVIDERS POSSIBLY CARRYING SOME OF THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY AND HOW IS THAT?  IS THAT IN THE DRAM SHOP AND THE COST OF THE DRAM SHOP THAT THEY CARRY?

RAY: YES - IOWA HAS A LAW.  THEY CALL IT THE DRAM SHOP LAW THAT SAYS  ANYONE WHO SERVES LIQUOR, AND MOST OFTEN IT’S BARS AND RESTAURANTS, THEN THEY’RE GOING TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY THE INTOXICATED PERSON IF THE INJURED PARTY  CAN SHOW THAT THE INTOXICATED PERSON WAS SERVED AT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION, THE BUSINESS OR WHOEVER SERVED IT KNEW THAT THE PERSON WAS INTOXICATED.  SO IN ORDER TO COVER THAT RESPONSIBILITY, YEAH, MANY OF THE BUSINESSES WILL GET INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR THAT.  IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE.

PETE: AND IT’S BEEN GOING UP OF LATE?  OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS?

RAY: OH, I THINK IT ALWAYS GOES UP FROM WHAT I’VE BEEN TOLD BY VARIOUS CLIENTS THAT I’VE REPRESENTED IN THE PAST.  IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT’S ALWAYS GOING UP.  BUT THAT IS ONE WAY OF TRYING TO REMEDY THE LOSS THAT’S CAUSED BY THE PERSON THAT DRINKS IRRESPONSIBLY.  AND IF YOU’RE GOING TO PROFIT FROM THAT, THEN THE  LEGISLATURE FEELS IT’S ONLY REASONABLE - AND I THINK THE PUBLIC FEELS IT’S REASONABLE THAT YOU SHARE SOME OF THAT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LOSS.

PETER: I SEE.  WELL, WE’VE ONLY GOT A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT, AND I’D LIKE TO ASK EACH OF YOU IF YOU’VE GOT A FINAL COMMENT FOR OUR AUDIENCE THIS MORNING.  FATHER, ANYTHING - CODE OF CONDUCT - LESSONS LEARNED - WHAT WE MIGHT LOOK FORWARD TO IN THE FUTURE?

MARK: IN A SOCIETY IN WHICH WE LIVE - I’M THINKING ESPECIALLY THE UNITED STATES - I’VE READ THAT YOU CAN TELL A LOT ABOUT A PERSON’S SPIRITUAL MATURITY BY THE WAY THEY DRIVE AND THE WAY THEY TALK TO DRIVERS WHO AREN’T ABLE TO HEAR THEM.  AND I THINK ANOTHER ASPECT OF THAT  SPIRITUAL MATURITY IS HOW SERIOUSLY DO I TAKE MY RESPONSIBILITIES AS A CITIZEN WHEN IT COMES TO DRINKING AND WHEN IT COMES TO DRIVING. AND WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE IN COMMUNITY WITH EACH OTHER.

PETER: THAT’S A GOOD LESSON FOR ALL TO TAKE TO HEART, FATHER.

DEE: WELL SAID.  I COULDN’T HAVE SAID IT BETTER.  LAST THOUGHT?  IT’S NOT HOPELESS.  AND IT CERTAINLY WON’T GET BETTER WITH A LOT OF HARD WORK, AND THAT IS BY COMMUNITY, AND COMMUNITY IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE AS A  RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY IN THE BIG PICTURE.  WE SEE IT AS CITY OFFICIALS.  WE SEE A DIFFERENT KIND OF COMMUNITY IN MAKING SURE  NEIGHBORHOODS ARE TAKING CARE AND HELPING RAISE THESE CHILDREN.

PETER: RAY, WE’RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE REAL SHORTLY, SO I’M GOING TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.  BUT ON BEHALF OF THE INTER-RELIGIOUS COUNCIL OF LINN COUNTY I’D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF OUR GUESTS THIS MORNING AND ALSO THANK YOU VIEWERS FOR JOINING US ON THIS TOPIC.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND HAVE A GREAT SUNDAY